What if the Theory of Evolution is Right? (Part I)

Sort:
varelse1

This sounds like it could be useful, in attempting to preserve endamgered species.

Elroch

Regarding the similarity of genomes, you can download both complete sequences (with less than 0.01% errors) and compare them yourself if you like.

It will unfortunately pass all those those are science denialists by to point out that differences in statistics relating to similarity are these days entirely due to differences in the type of similarity you mean. For example, coding DNA is much more similar than non-coding DNA. Autosomal DNA is much more similar than non-autosomal DNA. Both of these facts are successful predictions of the Theory of Evolution from before when any species had had their genomes sequenced (which only happened in the very late 20th century).

Similarity taking into account duplication mutations is higher than similarity without taking that into account.

The degree of similarity seen is entirely consistent with two lines that diverged about 6 million years ago and experiences the sort of rate of mutation that has been directly measured by sequencing individuals and their progeny in the 21st century.

_Number_6
varelse1 wrote:

"There are no atheists in foxholes" -- Dwight D Eisenhower

 

Maybe not in 1944.  You would be looking a lot harder for prayers in a fox hole these days.  With a few million soldiers in WW2 under the canopy of fire maybe find one instance where god did a better job of intervention than good field defences.

It is remarkable that after two wars Dwight wasn't an atheist himself.  Granted, he may have been busy thinking of one or two more important matters

MindWalk
varelse1 wrote:

Elroch wrote:

 

 

Perhaps it is a parable about the sort of unprovoked sectarian violence that any self-respecting deity abhors.

.

Yes.

Except for the unprovoked part. That professor was definitely doing some provoking, there.

Not in a way that would justify anybody's punching him.

MindWalk
varelse1 wrote:

MindWalk wrote:

 

 

 

I should think it would be important to a good many people. If there's a universe-creating being, I want to know it; but even more, if there's an afterlife and a being who has rules for how to get into the good afterlife, I want to know about it, and I want to know about those rules.

But I suspect you mean that *having their

beliefs respected* is intensely important to some--and nobody is ever under any obligation to respect anybody else's beliefs, even though everybody is always under an obligation to respect other people..

.

.

Correct.

In the story, the professor makes a career out of spitting on what he knows others hold sacred, and then acts shocked when he find out he has earned no popularity points for his efforts.

.

Most everybody in the world believes in a God or Gods, under one name or another. And .hose believers have one thing in common. They have no sense of humor about it.

The professor was 100% aware of this. He decided to try pushing his luck, anyway. Most would concur, he got his just desert.

I suppose you think Salman Rushdie got his just desert when he had to start living in hiding, or that anybody who draws a picture of Mohammed gets his just desert from fanatics who attack him? Come on. He might have earned a "You're not respecting my belief"--but then, we are under no obligation to respect other people's beliefs, even though we are under an obligation to respect the people themselves, and people who mistake the former for the latter are simply making a mistake.

MindWalk
varelse1 wrote:

"There are no atheists in foxholes" -- Dwight D Eisenhower

Nice story, though.

Would you believe me if I told you, I hated both of those professors exactly as much, for the exact same reason?

And both for a bad reason.

MindWalk
MindWalk wrote:

A question to which I do not know the answer is how the genome of a species is worked out. Surely, not all of the genes of all of the individuals of a species are the same. What does it mean, then, to speak of the genome of a species?

Does anyone know the answer to this question?

varelse1
MindWalk wrote:
 

I suppose you think Salman Rushdie got his just desert when he had to start living in hiding, or that anybody who draws a picture of Mohammed gets his just desert from fanatics who attack him? Come on. He might have earned a "You're not respecting my belief"--but then, we are under no obligation to respect other people's beliefs, even though we are under an obligation to respect the people themselves, and people who mistake the former for the latter are simply making a mistake.

Was Rushdie really so naive, as to not see what was coming? C'mon!

I happen to be a firm believer in Seldon's Law. Which states that awhile a person has free will and re3mains unpredictable, a million people ahve no free will, but act according to very strict and predictable principles, depending on the given circumstances and relevant stimuli.

When one person is trying to kill you, that's on him. When a million people are out to kill you, well, maybe you zigged somewhere, where you shoulda zagged.

MindWalk

I can't help what other people choose to do. I *can* help what I endorse. I do not endorse hitting an instructor for doing something that believers perceive as not properly respectful of their beliefs.

varelse1
MindWalk wrote:

I can't help what other people choose to do. I *can* help what I endorse. I do not endorse hitting an instructor for doing something that believers perceive as not properly respectful of their beliefs.

Okay, I conceed that physical violence was prolly not called for in that particular situation. But the professor had certainly earned the animosity of the majority of the class, if not an actual butt-whoopin.

gopher_the_throat

varelse1

@pawnwhacker

Here is the story you should have written:

A woman enlists in the Marines. She serves a tour in Iraq, and another in Afghanistan. Seeing heavy action in each.

Her enlistment complete, she goes reserve, and in her spare time, takes some classes at the nearby college. Cashing in on her GI Bill.

One of her classes is a philosophy course, the professor a born-again Christain, creationist, and member of Answers-in-Genesis.

One day she arrives for class, and sits down at her seat. The professor arrives five minutes late, marches up to the platform at the front of the class, and begins to tell a story:

 

"A woman enlists in the Marines. She serves a tour in Iraq, and another in Afghanistan. Seeing heavy action in each.

Her enlistment complete, she goes reserve, and in her spare time, takes some classes at the nearby college. Cashing in on her GI Bill.

One of her classes is a philosophy course, the professor an atheist and member of the ACLU.

One day she arrives for class, and sits down at her seat. The professor arrives five minutes late, marches up to the platform at the front of the class, and says "If there truely is a God, may he knock me down off this platform right here and now! I'll wait fifteen minutes!"

Five minutes pass in silence. The class begins to shift nervously in teir seats. Ten minutes go by.

"Well?!" Says the professor. "I'm waiting!"

Finally, our veteran decides enough is enough. She stands up, marches straight to the professor, clocks him in the jaw, and sits back down again.

The class is dumbfounded.

Knees shaking and rubbing his jaw, the professor weakly gets back on his feet and says "What the hell was that?!

To which the woman replied "Well, you see. God was too busy watching over our troops who at this very moment are risking their lives, fighting for your right to stand up there, and say stupid shit. So He sent me to do it for Him!"

 

 

After the story is complete, (most) the class bursts out laughing. But our Veteran simply sighs, walks up to the professor, punches him, and returns to her seat.

Knees shaking and rubbing his jaw, the professor say "What the heck was that for??"

The Marine gives a little smile, shrugs, and says "Well. I'm not really sure. I guess God just doesn't like the way you tell a story!"

 

MindWalk

Now that's a good re-telling, varelse1. I broke out laughing when I saw that it was a self-referential story, and then the end made perfect sense. And since the Marine isn't said to be an atheist, her reference to God in the last line doesn't spoil it. Nice.

pawnwhacker

   Here's, IMO, a much better story. Since the evolution "debate" here is over and we are reduced to story telling, I dedicate this to var who relishes same.

   This is a classic. Every once in awhile, I will send it to one of my "holier than thou friends". I believe I had posted a link to a video version earlier in this thread.

   Anyway, my friends, enjoy:

http://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Spritz-yule/hanks-ass.html

pawnwhacker

Here's another classic: https://www.flickr.com/groups/plastic_jesus_by_nyctreeman/discuss/72157594408562280/

 

Performed by Paul Newman in "Cool Hand Luke": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNtftzGqrmY

 

An artifact: http://www.gadgetsandgear.com/dashboard-jesus.html

gopher_the_throat

We seem to be descending into a theology forum or possibly an entertainment forum. Personally I like the Billy Idol version of Plastic Jesus best.

hapless_fool
pawnwhacker wrote:

     This is why we need scoundrels here, such as e99 and hapless. They certainly are not blocked. So, they must have yielded in defeat.

Yeah, I can't imagine why those knuckle-dragging science denying snake-handling IDiot Christian morons don't stick around for our erudite discussions. Lord knows (just an expression) we're cordial enough to them. None of them probably even graduated from secondary school.

Definition of "genome"? After arguing passionately for evolution based on genetics, and you don't know what a genome is? May I google that for you, from the NIH human genome project:  

   A genome is an organism’s complete set of DNA, including all of its genes. Each genome contains all of the information needed to build and maintain that organism. In humans, a copy of the entire genome—more than 3 billion DNA base pairs—is contained in all cells that have a nucleus.

Anyway, you guys are way too smart for me. I'm slinking off in defeat.

Elroch

hapless, it's not a defeat to improve your understanding of the real world.

[Although there's nothing wrong with including a definition of genome in this discussion, I'm a little puzzled why you thought it was necessary: I can't find any post that indicated that someone didn't know what the word meant. Certainly pawnwhacker, to whom you gave the appearance of replying, hasn't done so. I have to conclude you were responding to your misreading of something. Any idea what?]

Elroch
MindWalk wrote:
varelse1 wrote:

Elroch wrote:

 

 

Perhaps it is a parable about the sort of unprovoked sectarian violence that any self-respecting deity abhors.

.

Yes.

Except for the unprovoked part. That professor was definitely doing some provoking, there.

Not in a way that would justify anybody's punching him.

Emphatically agree. Only a very twisted mind would say that someone pointing out a lack of violence against him justified violence against him. This is the sort of thinking that - surprise, surprise - causes a lot of violence in the world.

pawnwhacker

   Good to see you back, hapless.  As you must be aware, I've been saying nice things about you in your absence.

   So, now that you've read the book, what are your conclusions?

   "Yeah, I can't imagine why those knuckle-dragging science denying snake-handling IDiot Christian morons don't stick around for our erudite discussions."

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/snake-handling-pastor-dies-snakebite-22546086

This forum topic has been locked