world war 2 #2

let's try this topic again, without going into current politics. okay?

The often repeated "half million" American casualty figure for a potential land invasion of Japan is greatly debatable and has largely been a patent response in justification of our two atomic attacks that ended the war.  The fact is, "expert" estimates at the time varied greatly.  The Joint Chiefs to Truman estimated 70,000 total U.S. casualties....a far cry from a half million.  The high end estimates, which did exist, all pre-supposed 100% participation of the Japanese civilian population in an armed defense of the islands....a questionable, though not impossible, premise.   Keep in mind that accounts of the time also indicate that the U.S. expected to have 8 atomic bombs in readiness by the time of a land invasion and envisioned using them as tactical weapons in advance of ground assault, as little as 48 hours prior to said troop movements.  We would likely have killed tens of thousands of our own troops with our own radioactive fallout had this ever materialized.

It's easy to armchair quarterback something in the past. The element of surprise has and always will be a preferred method of war. The American war machine had every reason to believe that the Japanese would fight hard and furious to the finish. The island hopping required during the pacific phase of the war was a good indicator of that. The Japanese war machine was collapsing at the time under the might of the US. Yet still they would fight down to the last man and suicide missions many times were their last stand.

I think also many times folks fail to consider what the Japanese had done up to that point in the Phillipines, Malaya, Myanmar, China, etc. The Japanese treatment of the Chinese after the Manchurian bridge incident was abysmal. And the same behavior exhibited itself all over the Pacific rim. The wartime actions of the Japanese are what instigated the use of the atomic bomb.

We can say "gee, America is evil for using the atomic bomb", but one must also consider the time frame perspective of those involved. In case you didn't know, the US was notified by several German scientists that Germany was working on a nuclear device. Imagine what would have happened to the UK if Germany wasn't defeated in time and one was put on a V-2! If Hitler had not been so greedy going after Russia which over-extended his forces, he may very well have developed the "bomb" first and used it on London via rocket attack! Think about that. One other thing, Germany was also working on rocket and jet propulsion aircraft. Think about the possible alternate endings that could have taken place...

All we need to know and remember is this................That generation of which my parents were a part of was full of both men and women that made it simply the greatest generation to every live, they saw what they had to do and did it with any complaints. We as Amercians own them so much and have given then so little. We all need to visit the Mall in Washington DC someday to pay tribute to them and the job that they did.

All the nation evolved had the same resolve form the front lines in Russia, the Deserts in Africa and all the island of the Pacific they all fought and died for their countries with the understanding that they had to.

This generation "X" can learn so much if only they wanted to.

With the end of each day we are loosing members of the Greatest generation to ever live and it is going unnoticed by the largest part of us, and my friends that  makes me and should make you all sad.

hinmanhouse wrote: Well, I certainly never stated that "gee, America is evil for using the atomic bomb". 

Looking at historical events through the lens of the present is not necessarily arm chair quarterbacking.  The decsion to use the bomb was a complex one that can be viewed from a number of different valid perspectives.

 I was not taking a dig at you. We have a society today that spends so much time "apologizing" for past transgressions while overlooking the circumstances that caused them it is amazing. 

Unfortunately when one makes the statement:

The often repeated "half million" American casualty figure for a potential land invasion of Japan is greatly debatable and has largely been a patent response in justification of our two atomic attacks that ended the war.  The fact is, "expert" estimates at the time varied greatly.  The Joint Chiefs to Truman estimated 70,000 total U.S. casualties....a far cry from a half million.

That is armchair quarterbacking based on historical perspective. It is easy to look at this now some 50 years in the future and say "they could have done this" or "they could have known this". Well, they didn't and we don't know their perspective at the time. If it is any consolation, you aren't the only one. I see it everyday in media of various sorts. As a student of 20th Century warfare specializing in occupation and knowing the unwillingness of most Americans to research the truth, I cringe. It is nothing against you, I just want to make sure folks have a historical perspective as to what led up to the dropping of the bombs. Maybe they saved lives, maybe they didn't. But you can bet your sweet bootie that if the Japanese had an A-bomb at their disposal China would be a different place today! Think about that.

apparently, there is a debate on the morality and the neccessisity of the atomic bombings. I saw that someone on the web said that America has never won a war. they say that america only helped the british and the french "a little." they said nepal contributed more to the war than america. Obviously, this is false, but what do you think about their post and the person themself?

 I won't pretend to judge them. They only know what they were taught. Doesn't make it right, believe me. For future reference, America HAS won numerous wars. The Spanish-American war where we won the Phillipines and Puerto Rico as well as the Revolutionary war. We also won the 2nd WW as well as the 1st WW. If it weren't for us, the first WW would not have ended and WW2 would not have started.

Just so you know, the 2nd WW started due to the war reparations forced on the Germans  courtesy of France. And France fell to the German forces who installed a puppet government on their behalf. Have you ever heard of the Vichy French  governement? Have you ever heard of the hyper-inflation of Germany between WWI and WWII? If you are intersted in seeing a few photos of hyper-inflation notes let me know, I have more than my fair share. 

Hitler did several things well. He rallied the people as you said by fixing blame. But he also succeeded enormously in restoring their pride by bringing their economy full circle in a few short years. They went from a broke country to a country to fear in 4 short years. That is a healthy achievement for any country. That's one of the reasons Hitler was so popular in Germany.

If you were to study the hows and whys of Hitler's rise to power and the Weimar Republics subsequent fall from power, you would have a good overall perspective of Hitler's magic. Our feelings about the Holocaust (which happened well after Hitler's initial rise to power) need to be put aside to objectively look at the political picture of 1920-1933.

BTW, for those who may be over-sensitive, I am not a Nazi (I don't believe in socialism of any kind) nor do I approve of racism of any kind. I simply am a historian who has studied in-depth the rise of Adolph Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Fidel Castro, Muammar Gaddafi and other dictators of the 20th century.

we bombed them cause they bombed us..its like getting punched in the face and not doin any thing about it so a couple ppl died..think of wat wuld of happen if we didnt retaliate