You want the truth? You can't handle the truth

Ta da!

- So, -for what purpose, are you having a discussion of this   - What is the intention

Great question. I guess I'm curious to see if anyone has anything to add. Plus it's a bit frustrating that more people can't see reality.

I don't think anyone actually knows precisely why they do anything.

As its all causality, to absolutely know why you do anything would be to know about every thought and feeling and behaviour you've ever had.

Every experience.

About every cell and chemical that's a part of you.

There is no purpose it just is

The Beatles had it right. Nothing is real and nothing to get hung about. Row your boat gently, life is just a dream.

The meaning of life is to talk in circles, apparently. Thank you Tom, glad you've stayed.

I agree, The Beatles have everything right. Too bad that schmuck took Lennon from us, costing us a lot of good music.

Sorry Tom, I believe its you that can't handle the truth. There is light and darkness, there is also good and evil. People like to justify their inappropiate actions though, by lying to themselves. Of course there is much more, but the time isn't yet to reveal. Good luck on your beliefs however.

People may often try to justify their actions by arguing against the existence of a moral binary, but people also often try to justify their actions by proclaiming that there is a moral binary and asserting themselves to be on the correct side of it. Arguing against one philosophy based solely on the motivations of a select group who adhere to it is an ad hominem fallacy at its core.

Life would be so dry and meaningless if we always had an answer to this question.

I really enjoyed reading this morning thank you.

I accept that sometimes I use a thousand words when a hundred would do and I apologise.

In the past I've been searching but I'm actually not anymore.

I didn't start this thread to learn or wonder I'm happy that I've seen the overall nature of reality and if I wanted to see more intricately then I'd study science and follow Elroch's thread.

I just like a chat and hadn't had a chance to raise my discovery here.

I wondered if others might like to talk about the truth that I know.

There's a few interesting comments to take a look at this morning. I especially like Scott's comment about well does this forum or post exist?

The answer is yes, but not as you think that it does.

The first thing that springs to mind is things really aren't as they appear anyway. When you get down to the finer detail things aren't so clear.

Solid matter isn't still and empty space isn't empty.

Also even what we perceive as seen is to some extent at least a creation of our brain.

Scientists will tell you that your view, your vision, doesn't precisely match what you experience yourself to see. The brain contributes to the experience.

And after that we project all these values on to things. It's good it's bad, it's beautiful it's ugly, it's meaningful, it's meaningless.

No actually it just is.

We also do this it's mine thing. I exist and it's mine.

Well no. Actually that's not true. You don't own anything. There is no you.

I agree with blarg basically about the why do you say that approach.

I mean perhaps when the first person recognised the world didn't revolve around the earth there would be those that would protest and make allegations about said person's character.

It's interesting that a person can't have an alternative view without a challenge about their character arising. It hardly seems a logical approach to dealing with a new idea.

Having said all that I think that perhaps it's possible that people tend to gravitate towards belief systems that give them what they need or what they want. I'm not sure about that.

The theory is that a person that accepts free will is an illusion is experiencing shame or the burden of responsibility and seeking to remove that cross they bear.

By that logic if it is indeed the case that all that's real is nature then we can't as a society accept that because to do so would be accepting we are all morally bankrupt.

Darwin, Einstein and Hawking all saw that the we are kings and queens sitting on a throne within our brain concept is false.

You could say oh well that's because they are a bunch of cowards and that's fine, but you know perhaps they are right.

I can talk about what it's like to know that all there is is nature.

Well I recall Nikpirt talking of his ideas and to me at least it sounded like he aspired to experiencing something oh so wonderful and meaningful.

The truth isn't like that. It's relaxing but there is no joy in it. For me it's a meh. It's nice to reach the end of my journey.

I can't say everything is meaningless because that's subjective and there is no I.

All I can say is it's neither meaningful or meaningless. It just is.

The brain plays its tricks. Like oh what what should I do in response to this truth.

But there is no I!

What is just is.

All your behaviour and thought and feeling is just something that exists within nature and nature will do it's thing and that's it

If the concept of 'I' is an arbitrary illusion, how do you know the concept of nature is any more meaningful? Might it just be an arbitrary division at a higher level, deriving its own meaning and boundaries from something else?

hi - I had not meant, at all: 'Why that approach?'  I was just trying to understand for myself what exactly you were meaning, for i could not see the logic of it  .. the truth of it, that we are in reality, an illusion.  So, it was more like trying to reach for what could bridge the gap for acceptance of this, as actuality.  -And so, it was a qu. for clarity?  -If it was reality - the reservation i have is, why does life look like 'this' then ?  Why, do i 'feel' the, force-field of the earth .. why do my feet stop abruptly at the top of solid ground, why is an embrace so melodious an experience -  if we are really an illusion.  How is it, there is all this texture to our lives.  -(Does this make sense ?)

Blarg many don't believe there is good or evil. I know for a fact there is, through my own personal experiences. I am not going to debate it with you. You choose to believe otherwise. I don't have any problem with that whatsoever. As I previously said good luck on your beliefs, or lack there of.

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Tom there is no truth. The truth lies in the mind of each individual.

I never even said whether I do or don't believe in a moral binary. I sort of believe in both.

I don't choose to believe what I believe. I'm lead there by my thoughts and my experiences--the same, I'm sure, as you.