Chess Theory; How Would You Approach It.

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kindaspongey

One can get some idea of the lasting scope of the respect for My System by looking at:
https://www.chess.com/article/view/the-best-chess-books-ever
Still, it might be noted that My System apparently did not occur to GM Yasser Seirawan as something to include in his list of personal favorites, and Aaron Nimzowitsch was not identified by the GM as a very worthy author.

https://www.chess.com/blog/RoaringPawn/an-open-letter-to-the-four-time-us-chess-champion-gm-yasser-seirawan

https://www.chess.com/blog/GMYAZ/open-letter-response-user-radovics-letter-to-me

My System has accumulated some direct negative commentary over the years.
"... I found [the books of Aaron Nimzowitsch to be] very difficult to read or understand. ... [Nimzowitsch: A Reappraisal by Raymond Keene explains his] thinking and influence on the modern game in a far more lucid and accessible way. ... The books that are most highly thought of are not necessarily the most useful. Go with those that you find to be readable; ..." - GM Nigel Davies (2010)
In 2016, IM pfren wrote:
"My System is an iconoclastic book. A lot of things in there is sheer provocation, and it does need an expereienced player to know what exactly must be taken at its face value.
I love 'My System', and I have read it cover to cover one dozen times, but suggesting it to a class player is an entirely different matter."
Also: "[Some things] ARE wrong, and it's not easy for a non-advanced player to discover those wrong claims.
Nigel Short has claimed that 'My System' should be banned. Stratos Grivas says that the book is very bad. I don't share their opinion, but I am pretty sure that there are more useful reads for class players out there."
Although he is a fan of My System, IM John Watson similarly acknowledged (2013) that:
"... Not everything in it has stood the test of time, ..."
http://theweekinchess.com/john-watson-reviews/john-watson-book-review-108-of-eplus-books-part-2-nimzowitsch-classics
One last point to keep in mind is that, even if My System would eventually help a player, it might not necessarily be helpful to a player now.
"... Just because a book contains lots of information that you don’t know, it doesn’t necessarily mean that it will be extremely helpful in making you better at this point in your chess development. ..." - Dan Heisman (2001)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140626180930/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman06.pdf
A My System sample can be seen at:

https://www.qualitychess.co.uk/ebooks/MySystem-excerpt.pdf

A Chess Praxis sample can be seen at:

https://www.qualitychess.co.uk/ebooks/ChessPraxis-excerpt.pdf

Various samples:

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/9027.pdf

kindaspongey
StevenPatzer wrote:

... My Great Predecessors 5 Vol. by Garry Kasparov

https://web.archive.org/web/20140708110300/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review385.pdf
https://web.archive.org/web/20140708104513/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review413.pdf
https://web.archive.org/web/20140708112445/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review459.pdf
https://web.archive.org/web/20140708090915/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review523.pdf

joseph1000000

 

Your choice of name "sponge" definitely is appropriate.  You have soaked a lot. That is a compliment. 

joseph1000000

kindaspongey: Have you read books by Igor Stool:  Kasparov's greatest chess games? It comes in two volumes. 

kindaspongey

Haven't read them, but here are some reviews:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140708091615/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review506.pdf

https://web.archive.org/web/20140708233159/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review544.pdf

"Remember, if you like books--like reading them and owning them--there's no such thing as 'one chess book.' ... as you acquire one or two and read them through--even if you don't--you'll find yourself drawn to the chess section every time you walk into Walden's or Barnes and Noble or Borders. If you leaf through the books and compare their contents to what you need, you'll soon find yourself dedicating a shelf or two of your bookcase to chess books. You'll want to have all of Sierawan's books (as soon as they're back in print). You'll yearn to complete your collection of Alburt's series. You'll start haunting used book shops for old copies of Fischer's 'My 60 Memorable Games.' Your hair will gradually grow unkempt, and a distracted wild look will creep into your eyes. If you're separated from your books for too long, your hands will begin to twitch and you'll start plotting knight moves across the checkered tablecloth at the Italian restaurant where you're supposed to be wooing your wife / girlfriend. You've entered a perilous zone ... 'Chessbibliomania' is not a condition to be easily dismissed, and research has shown it isn't curable. Maybe you'll be better off just buying a gin rummy program for your computer and avoiding this chess book madness altogether. happy.png Happy reading!!"
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.chess.misc/msg/d96eccf5ddec3c33

joseph1000000
kindaspongey wrote:

Haven't read them, but here are some reviews:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140708091615/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review506.pdf

https://web.archive.org/web/20140708233159/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review544.pdf

"Remember, if you like books--like reading them and owning them--there's no such thing as 'one chess book.' ... as you acquire one or two and read them through--even if you don't--you'll find yourself drawn to the chess section every time you walk into Walden's or Barnes and Noble or Borders. If you leaf through the books and compare their contents to what you need, you'll soon find yourself dedicating a shelf or two of your bookcase to chess books. You'll want to have all of Sierawan's books (as soon as they're back in print). You'll yearn to complete your collection of Alburt's series. You'll start haunting used book shops for old copies of Fischer's 'My 60 Memorable Games.' Your hair will gradually grow unkempt, and a distracted wild look will creep into your eyes. If you're separated from your books for too long, your hands will begin to twitch and you'll start plotting knight moves across the checkered tablecloth at the Italian restaurant where you're supposed to be wooing your wife / girlfriend. You've entered a perilous zone ... 'Chessbibliomania' is not a condition to be easily dismissed, and research has shown it isn't curable. Maybe you'll be better off just buying a gin rummy program for your computer and avoiding this chess book madness altogether. Happy reading!!"
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.chess.misc/msg/d96eccf5ddec3c33

 

Now, I like you even more.  You tried to spook me!lol 

Was that a confession of sort as well? Lol

kindaspongey

Of sort.

joseph1000000
kindaspongey wrote:

Of sort.

 

Try to have some fun and not be too serious.  Life is full of harm, for some of us anyway. 

joseph1000000
PawnstormPossie wrote:

So far, we have the opening and endgame fundamentals. Next, I'd look at tactics. Your endgame study at this point has used some tactics. Now I'd look at identifying tactical motifs, solving puzzles, and applying them in games. Again, starting with the fundamentals and making sure you understand each one before moving to the next.

At this point, you should also (IMO) be trying to learn from your experiences. Capturing your thinking process before/after each move will help identify areas for improvement. Annotating your games and those of quality master level games should be part of your learning.

Next, I'd focus on middlegames (planning). How to evaluate a position, how to calculate tactics, how to visualize moves, and how to come up with a plan. Pawn structures of the openings you actually play would be my first choice to consider.

From there, it should be fairly simple. Advance your study of each element for each phase of the game with your level of play.

Once at an intermediate level, studying endgames and tactics might be more practical than random openings, deep theory, or middle game plans for structures you'll never see.

At a master level, you see focus switch to deep positional understanding and calculation.

At the highest level, openings and their variations' theory is the thing. Why? Because this is the area left for being creative. Endgames are pretty much covered by books and tablebases. Middlegame tactics and positions become intuitive and computers can help, but there just might be some things still undiscovered here as well.

I have a few books. Some I've read, some barely cracked open yet. I'll try to categorize them and post something like Russ Bell.

 

You made a lot of good points in two recent posts. 

What i would also suggest is to read  books about openings,  tactics,  positional chess , pawn formation ...and get a overall view of what chess is about,  all of it. This could be done in any order that suits the person. Then spiral up to a higher level by reading more books on different skills and doing more practises. 

Also I think it was you who wanted to work on a project to list many more Pawn Structures. 

This sort of projects could expand the understanding of the subject. Also could lead to new ways of looking at Chess Theory. A.  Soltis' book lists only 17 formations. Your project could give you a lot of practice on openings, plans and strategies available for white and/or black. I am talking about something similar to what Wikipedia has under "pawn structure", but with many more formations listed.  If done properly and organised it will be a massive self coaching. 

kindaspongey

"... Abstract themes and passive learning aren't necessarily bad. But whatever you learn has to be underlined in a more active way. Otherwise you will forget it, the way to you will forget trigonometry once you stop using sines and cosines. This is where practice comes in. Practice means playing games against humans and machines in various formats and time limits. When you get to apply - in a real game - what you've learned from a book or computer screen, the information is reinforced in a powerful way. ..." - GM Andrew Soltis (2009)

"... The overwhelming majority of chess literature is about theory: opening theory, improvement theory, tactical ideas, how to think, etc. Good stuff. But the flip side to theory is practice. How good would you be at golf if you only took lessons and never played? … You need both theory and practice in tennis, golf, chess, math, or just about anything else. ..." - NM Dan Heisman (2002) https://web.archive.org/web/20140627052239/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman16.pdf

joseph1000000

 

Are you working on pawn structures? How far are you?

joseph1000000
kindaspongey wrote:

"... Abstract themes and passive learning aren't necessarily bad. But whatever you learn has to be underlined in a more active way. Otherwise you will forget it, the way to you will forget trigonometry once you stop using sines and cosines. This is where practice comes in. Practice means playing games against humans and machines in various formats and time limits. When you get to apply - in a real game - what you've learned from a book or computer screen, the information is reinforced in a powerful way. ..." - GM Andrew Soltis (2009)

"... The overwhelming majority of chess literature is about theory: opening theory, improvement theory, tactical ideas, how to think, etc. Good stuff. But the flip side to theory is practice. How good would you be at golf if you only took lessons and never played? … You need both theory and practice in tennis, golf, chess, math, or just about anything else. ..." - NM Dan Heisman (2002) https://web.archive.org/web/20140627052239/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman16.pdf

 

1. Chess is practicing the mind.  So reading is a way of practicing.  I am using chess to work on concentration.  As well as other purposes. 

2. Golf and chess are very different. Math is more close to chess than golf or tennis. 

3. Chess G. M. 's talk of chess as a career or at least serious players.  I am not even a player. 

4. You give too much credit to chess G. M.s.

joseph1000000
PawnstormPossie wrote:
joseph1000000 wrote:

 

Are you working on pawn structures? How far are you?

Yes, I am working on that massive project. Sadly enough I'm only at 52 now. 

 

Why sadly? 52 is a lot.  Go easy on yourself.  That is good for a relatively short time you have been working on it. That is 3 times 17 plus 1. Wikipedia copied it from Soltis I believe.

I don't have what exactly 52 means,  in terms of volume and what is included in each of those 52 pieces.  I am going to search for other works being done and send you the result. 

joseph1000000

 

I tried to find some info. to help you with your work But the most I could do were:

(1)http://exeterchessclub.org.uk/content/pawn-formations

(2) https://thechessworld.com/articles/middle-game/15-must-know-chess-pawn-formations/

Which you could very well could have come up with. #1 includes 42 formations. #2 and many others rehash what they have learned from books. Nothing new

I came up with two ideas, which could be of help

1. To put you in touch with others who have done some work, possibly.

2. Start new threads to have others post any new formation(s) on it and see where that goes.

 

joseph1000000
PawnstormPossie wrote:

Yes, I have those.

1. The Exeter list, classifications, and openings of occurrence are helpful. They don't elaborate much on the associated plans for each side.

2. The other article you linked is closer to what I'm working on. More details in the ideas/plans for each side and tactical motifs from high quality games is more what I'm hoping to achieve.

3. I do plan to gather/share ideas with others on forums, I'm just not really there yet.

4. A few structures like Maroczy bind (White's structure usually) are giving me major issues because of the different structures available for Black. For example, vs Dragon, Hedgehog, or Kan, Taimanov, it also appears in English, and Queen's Indian Defence. My original approach didn't consider this these things. Now, I'm leaning toward pgn files instead of a purely book/article type format. I've been collecting pgns created by others and working on my own.

Having said all this, as you might imagine, I have much more information on some (of the 52) structures than others and they are mainly the common structures in my repertoire. This is where others come in to contribute. I can't (bad word) do it all myself unless the quanity of structures is rather limited. I'd like quality and quantity to both be on the high side.

On #1 (paragraph 1) I thought you would say so.

On #2 there are quite few of those. Wikipedia is a summary of Soltis'.

On #3 I could start a thread if that suits you too. 

On #4 your knowledge is much more than mine anyway. And I am not familiar with p. G. N format or even some others that I have encountered on this site. 

This - done properly,  the way you are working,  will take you places(2000 elo) (or more).

On other suggestions also let me know. It is a great undertaking but will pay off. 

kindaspongey
PawnstormPossie wrote:

... I have much more information on some (of the 52) structures than others and they are mainly the common structures in my repertoire. This is where others come in to contribute. I can't (bad word) do it all myself unless the quanity of structures is rather limited. I'd like quality and quantity to both be on the high side.

Maybe consider:
Simple Chess by Michael Stean
https://web.archive.org/web/20140708104258/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review400.pdf

http://store.doverpublications.com/0486424200.html
Pawn Structure Chess by GM Andrew Soltis (2013)

https://web.archive.org/web/20140708101523/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review908.pdf
The Power of Pawns by GM Jörg Hickl (2016)
https://chessbookreviews.wordpress.com/tag/the-power-of-pawns/
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/9034.pdf

Chess structures: A Grandmaster Guide

https://chessbookreviews.wordpress.com/tag/chess-structures-a-grandmaster-guide/

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7495.pdf
Small Steps to Giant Improvement
https://chessbookreviews.wordpress.com/tag/sam-shankland/
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7804.pdf
Pawn Power in Chess by Kmoch

http://store.doverpublications.com/0486264866.html

Understanding Pawn Play in Chess by GM Marovic
http://www.gambitbooks.com/pdfs/Understanding_Pawn_Play_in_Chess.pdf
https://web.archive.org/web/20140708110136/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review249.pdf
Dynamic Pawn Play in Chess by GM Drazen Marovic (2001)
http://www.gambitbooks.com/pdfs/Dynamic_Pawn_Play_in_Chess.pdf
http://theweekinchess.com/john-watson-reviews/books-of-many-flavours
Winning Chess Middlegames, An Essential Guide to Pawn Structures by GM Ivan Sokolov (2009)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140708091955/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review676.pdf
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/922.pdf

kindaspongey

Winning Pawn Structures

https://web.archive.org/web/20140718055446/http://chesscafe.com/text/wps.txt

joseph1000000
PawnstormPossie wrote:

Yes, I don't have the Hickl or Marovic books...yet.

I haven't considered the Shankland or Stean books.

The others I have. Reading the Rios Flores work now and really liking it.

 

Do you mean  you need hickl  and marovic books on pawn structures also?

DampCereal
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DampCereal
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