Conditional Moves in Vote Chess

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val08

Exactly. If we do percentage then that will require that a large number of players in the game votes, which rarely happens from what I've seen. In a game of 50 players, maybe only 30 members vote each turn. There is a LOT of details that need to be worked out before we bother the staff with this vague idea. And I honestly feel that conditional moves is not important enough to be bumped to the staff's priority list of things that need to be implemented. This feature would benefit a very small number of groups and an even smaller number of games.

val08

It is NOT the same for conditional moves... have you ever used conditional moves? lol

Making a conditional MOVE is optional. You probably won't be using it every turn but another member might. If even one person votes conditionally, then it will show up on the list and be played. It is not a matter of organization unless you are telling your team to vote conditionally every turn.

chess_kebabs

you would really only use the conditional moves when you are in book opening stage and when you are certain what they would move next, pretty much forced moves.... obviously... you would be silly to use it any time in vote chess.... that goes without saying ... uuf.

chess_kebabs

you could knock off 15-20 days in a game if using conditional moves for book opening moves and for forced moves, possibly more...

AND if the team doesn't go for the move you did the conditional move for so what? you then have the normal 1-3 days again to plan and vote for your next move...

wouldn't call it a "vague idea"...

chess_kebabs
val08 wrote:

If even one person votes conditionally, then it will show up on the list and be played. It is not a matter of organization unless you are telling your team to vote conditionally every turn.


Absolutely not! It works the same as normal votes... majority vote rules... if the majority vote for it as a conditional move, then it will pass as the conditional move... would be senseless to do anything else...

Exquisite-Fairy

do these pants make my thighs look big?

val08

King_Chapo, I feel like you are ignoring half of what I write, lol. You tell your team to vote the current move and MOST will listen. You tell your team NOT to vote and MOST will listen. If the one or two people who don't listen vote conditionally, then you will have the A) or B) senario I presented above.

 

Babs, of course it would be silly to use it any time. The point I'm making is that there might be one or two members who think differently and feel that the next move is obvious. They will vote and your team will be screwed. I already presented a possible senario above.

val08
chess_kebabs wrote:
val08 wrote:

If even one person votes conditionally, then it will show up on the list and be played. It is not a matter of organization unless you are telling your team to vote conditionally every turn.


Absolutely not! It works the same as normal votes... majority vote rules... if the majority vote for it as a conditional move, then it will pass as the conditional move... would be senseless to do anything else...


 If the majority does NOT vote conditionally, then the minority that votes = majority. And yes, the idea is pretty vague as it is. I'm trying to stir a discussion so we know what exactly it is you want the conditional move to do and how you want it to work.

rooperi

I don't really get it, let's try an example, and maybe chess_kebabs can give us a walkthrough:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, it's the 1st move, and the team has consensus it wants to play 1e4.

Now it's time to consider conditional moves, after all, this is the opening, supposedly one of the best times to us this feature.

Now we decide on a conditional line against e5, discussing the merits of the King's Gambit, Nf3, Nc3 etc. Say we decide on Nf3. Perhaps they play Nc6, we can go for a Spanish, or Italian, or Scotch...

But maybe they play 1 ... e6, or c6, or c5, or d5,or Nf6, or Nc6.....

chess_kebabs
val08 wrote:

Babs, of course it would be silly to use it any time. The point I'm making is that there might be one or two members who think differently and feel that the next move is obvious. They will vote and your team will be screwed. I already presented a possible senario above.


But Sora, this can happen WITHOUT conditional moves in place...

majority rules for voting for a conditional move, just as for voting for a standard non-conditional move, no different...

more screw ups will happen the fewer players there are in the team, and/or the less organised the team is... with or without conditional moves in place...

chess_kebabs
Exquisite-Fairy wrote:

do these pants make my thighs look big?


huge...

I think black would work better for you...

chess_kebabs

I am working at the moment, so once magazine hits the press I promise to come back and answer your question Rooperi...

rooperi
chess_kebabs wrote:

I am working at the moment, so once magazine hits the press I promise to come back and answer your question Rooperi...


PFFFT! What's more important, some silly deadline or getting this resolved? Cool

TheGrobe
chess_kebabs wrote:

you would really only use the conditional moves when you are in book opening stage and when you are certain what they would move next, pretty much forced moves.... obviously... you would be silly to use it any time in vote chess.... that goes without saying ... uuf.


But the spies you mentioned in the other vote chess thread might.  As organized as your team might be it would only take one dissenter to turn this feature against you.

TheGrobe
chess_kebabs wrote:
val08 wrote:

Babs, of course it would be silly to use it any time. The point I'm making is that there might be one or two members who think differently and feel that the next move is obvious. They will vote and your team will be screwed. I already presented a possible senario above.


But Sora, this can happen WITHOUT conditional moves in place...

majority rules for voting for a conditional move, just as for voting for a standard non-conditional move, no different...

more screw ups will happen the fewer players there are in the team, and/or the less organised the team is... with or without conditional moves in place...


I think you are missing val08's point.  It bears repeating:

val08 wrote:

 If the majority does NOT vote conditionally, then the minority that votes = majority.

chess_kebabs

I'm possibly not seeing something here that you guys are seeing... can't digest it at the moment either, but will try to later.... convince me it doesn't work and I am happy to say scrap the idea...

And Rooperi, the silly deadline matters more so I can earn enough dough to stay on as a premium member here... Wink

TheGrobe

It's not that it can't work, just that the scenarios raised need to be addressed.

TheGrobe

Yes, I proposed the same in post #44.  I still think that there are many other issues as well though -- would you need the threshold to be met by the number that vote for the highest ranking conditional move or just that enough people feel a conditional move -- any conditional move -- is warranted?  Do you measure the percentage against the number who voted, or the number who voted for the move that was selected.

What about alternate lines?  In vote chess there is potential variability on your move that doesn't exist in a one-on-one game.  How do you accommodate the if we move X then Y scenario in an interface that's designed only to handle if they move J then K....

I could go on, but my point is that I ultimately think this is far to complex to consider as a feasible feature addition and that I don't think that complexity has been thoroughly considered along-side the request.

val08

I feel like TheGrobe is the only one who understands me even though I repeated my argument over and over, lol.

 

Let's play a game. Babs, you are the leader and you tell us to vote e5 this turn. Everyone vote e5. You have not planned for the next move yet and are waiting to see what the opponent plays. Someone has presented the possibility of black responding ...Kg1 and they feel we should reply with Qe7. We're not too sure of this, and decide that we'll discuss more deeply next turn. Because of this, no one votes conditionally. But wait, the clock ticks down, only 1 minute left to vote. e5 still has 100% in votes. I come in and BAM. Without a second thought, I vote e5 and Qe7 as the conditional response to ...Kg1. Next turn comes and what does black play? Kg1! Wait a minute, it's their turn again. Why? Because I was the only person who voted conditionally so my 1 vote = 100% for Qe7. Turns out Qe7 was a blunder. We didn't even get a chance to look at it and it was already played. I alone just screwed up your game.

val08

TheGrobe: YES!!! OMG, you so understand me! Lol. I was thinking about EXACTLY those kinds of problems, but I haven't even brought it up yet because the basic questions I have been asking haven't been answered yet.