Initial rating 1200 too high

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Dr_Roman_Anton

All pacts are undeniable and proven. I do not explain them here again.  Read my previous posts again and ask yourself why you do not want to acknowledge undoubtedly facts? 

One thought is enough to finally prove that the Glicko System and all ELO online system are extremely wrongly normalized if such starting values are used.

Here is another evidence that my chess skills are 2000 Elo not 1500 ELO - as I told you: 

 

null

 

If you would do the test on this or other sites your would, again and again, find that I am right.

 

You are strategically denying all facts in a stubborn childish way that is not discursive.  You cannot simply say that points are deniable without giving a reason for each point, keep this in mind.

If you compare online rating of some players you might find only marginal difference - but that does not mean anything, as the online rating of many players is false on many servers, even on FIDE.

But the OTB ratings distribution tells the story compared to your distribution not individual players. 

 

For example, if a grandmaster starts at an online site they do not start with 1200 ELO points, right? They start with their official ratings or something like that. The will never play in the same  continuum with the normal chess players that start at 1200. They get 2800 ELO for free and the only players that can beat them are players that also got 2800 ELO points for free. They are not in the same batch, get the point. Comparing two online ratings of normal players is the same effect if both ELOs are downgraded by artificial ELO scarcity for that batch of players. That's why it appears to you that it would function there. Also, it is the steepness of the ELO curve that is altered by the UNDENIABLE ARTIFICIAL SCARCITY OF ELOPOINTS. Thank you.

 

 

 

Martin_Stahl

Well, I don't know what to tell you. Many titled players start playing here before they get official recognition, so they don't get their rating set to their OTB one.

 

I could go out and grab a bunch of players with OTB ratings and compare them to their chess.com ratings. While some will end up with lower ratings here, some will be closer in rating and some will be lower OTB. I've seen it first hand across a number of accounts (ones where I know what their OTB ratings are). Most certainly are not anywhere near 500 higher rated OTB.

 

At the higher levels, there very likely are larger discrepancies, but those are not systemic of a problem with the rating system, or of the fact the site starts with a default rating.

 

But you keep claiming the ratings are false. The only real ratings are those you get by playing rated games against other players. Ratings measure past performances within a pool. While they provide a statistical measure of winning expectations against players,  that is all they do. Again, they are valid within pools and there may be some meaningful correlations between pools, but for most people, they are not 500 points stronger than their chess.com rating.

 

But if it makes you feel better, keep on thinking that. wink.png

 

Heinkel111
Heinkel111 wrote:

My own experience is that when I played a new player recently (it was his fisrt game and he showed up with a score of 1200) I got something like 23 points for a victory in 2 moves. The other player only made 2 moves and lost his knight on the 2nd move and then gave up so obviously was a beginner. I don't think I deserved 23 points for that.

 

Just wanted to correct my account of that game.

I mis-remebered it. I went back and checked the rating adjustment and I actually got zero points for that very quick 3 move time-out victory against a new player even though he dropped points.

https://www.chess.com/daily/game/186361996

So there is no conservation-of-points in the system to worry about and it seems like the starting value is not such a big deal.

saurav2202

I Started with fell to 800 but it hardly took me a month to get to my deserved rating.

Martin_Stahl
Heinkel111 wrote:
Heinkel111 wrote:

My own experience is that when I played a new player recently (it was his fisrt game and he showed up with a score of 1200) I got something like 23 points for a victory in 2 moves. The other player only made 2 moves and lost his knight on the 2nd move and then gave up so obviously was a beginner. I don't think I deserved 23 points for that.

 

Just wanted to correct my account of that game.

I mis-remebered it. I went back and checked the rating adjustment and I actually got zero points for that very quick 3 move time-out victory against a new player even though he dropped points.

https://www.chess.com/daily/game/186361996

So there is no conservation-of-points in the system to worry about and it seems like the starting value is not such a big deal.

 

The game was too short. Has to be 4 or more moves to get a rating change on timeout.

TC2304

If my blitz rating is 500 points to low on this site then where is my GM title for OTB? I'm 2200 ish blitz on chess.com and haven't even broken 2000 FIDE! Someone is clearly deluded...  

Dr_Roman_Anton

The rating is not for everyone 500 ELO too low. Only for players around 1500-1600 ELO. 

The distribution in the steepness of the curve makes this possible.

A higher rating is more accurate than a lower one.  Under identical conditions your FIDE should be higher - but only marginally. At an ELO of 2000 the Chess. com system is only 100 ELO to low.  

The most accurate ELO is found at over 2400 as these players are a "different batch of players" that can not be compared with the rest of all players. They only play with themselves, and they are players that received 2500 or more from day 1 and did not have to earn in in artificial scarcity conditions like all others n chess.com. They would still be able to get these points because their play is so strong - but at the expense of all other players - as they would hereby further subtract ELO from the common ELO pool, a very fixed amount of points, and this would further drop all of our ELOs by some more points. 

In short: 1500 ELO players are ca. 1900 ELO and 2000 ELO players are probably 2150, 2200 players are probably 2300, 2300 players are probably 2350, and so on. This would be my "best guess" only. But it seems right to me. I have checked many things and "the conservation of ELO" in Glicko and Glicko2 is the problem that causes the artificial ELO scarcity as Millions of players started with ONLY 1200. The average could be 1600 and thus 1500 players would have 300 ELO less but then the competition drives the problem further: high skilled players need to earn ELO points from low skilled payers but there are not enough point to resemble the natural strength. What happens is: the stronger the player the more natural will be his ELO as he can still get the points from a huge amount of players. But the medium skilled players will have 500 ELO less than they would have due to the scarcity of ELO points that is the sum of 300 and 200 in this example for illustration purpose.

any further questions?

>>>> WE SHOULD TOGETHER DEMAND OUT 500 ELO POINTS FROM CHESS.COM  <<<<

ps: they have read this happy.png 

 

 

 

 

Martin_Stahl

The rating pool/system is not fixed with limited available points. Where did you get that idea?

TC2304

"2200 players are probably 2300" In my dreams hahaha

Dr_Roman_Anton

Yes, according to my understanding, the rating pool system very much - almost totally - fixed with limited available points. This almost totally fixed system with regards to aggregated points is the reason for the artificial ELO scarcity. Now, why do you believe it is different? 

- if a high-rated player wins against a low-rated player he/she gets few points; the low rated player loses few points

- if a high-rated player  loses against a low-rated player he/she loses more points; the low-rated player wins more points

- and everything else also balances in the same way

At the end of the day, and assuming a normal distribution of ELO, it is almost totally constant. 

If you think it is different than provide some evidence if you can...

In the meantime we must organize a bottom-up ELO revolution here in the internet 

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Millions of players were strategically underrated in their ELO! 

They are much better players than their ELO would suggest!

Why are they doing this to us must be the question!

MathWizKidA
MyRatingis1523 wrote:

ratings are highly overinflated on this site. real rating = chess.com rating - 500

What about your tactics/puzzles rating? (Just in case you use ChessKid. The website is Chesskid.com)

Gamificast

I agree with you OP. The reason ratings are inflated is because you get too many points for winning a game and lose too many for losing (approx +/-50 points in some cases). I think that it's ridiculous that you only have to play two games to gain 100 points and vice versa. Losing a few games should not drop you a few hundred points.

ndb2010

Presumably people who have commented here have read the Glicko paper(s)

http://www.glicko.net/ratings/rating.system.pdf

? In any case, ratings points are not conserved for 2 reasons: (i) different k-factors, which vary greatly as a function of rating (via the effective number of games being a function of rating), and (ii) the bonus score (relevant for tournaments),  

Dr_Roman_Anton

real rating is chess.com rating + 500 for all 1500 players 

read my previous posts, I cannot explain this again and again.

I have read the glicko paper, thatÄs why I know that it doesn't adjust for this.

All ELO systems DO NOT adjust for aggregated ELO points.  Thats why: 

real rating is chess.com rating + 500 ELO for all 1500-1600 rated players

 

 

Dr_Roman_Anton

Get educated, a scientific measure shows that 1500 players are 2000 ELO players (CI 1891 -2140)!

 

They systematically hinder us to get the ELO that we deserve on all online chess site, not kidding you.

 

null

Dr_Roman_Anton

You are wrong again, my games are fine except the weak moves and the blunders when I am mind manipulated, which is another bog topic here. We are mind manipulated to lose games - not kidding. 

 

The games are around 1900 not 2000 that would indicate that 400 ELO points are missing. 

 

Since decades you are used to a wrong ELO scale. It does not make me wonder that you cannot do this intellectual transfer work to the new scale. You have internalized the wrong ELO scale too much. Y

 

Also, FIE average ELO numbers are rising year by year like tournament ELO averages! 

Only on internet chess sites like chess.com they are falling year by year since more than 10 years. 

As Wishy said, it is more simple to learn chess than ever before; due to sites like this. Hence the average ELO points should have risen since decades and not falling! Just think of it. 

 

Why is everyone so stubborn here? Are you all mind-manipulated to be stubborn? 

Heinkel111

^I don't think any rise or fall in percentile scores over time is meaningful. A points system like the one used in chess simply allows a pool of contemporary players to be ranked against each other. It does not allow any comparison between the players of today and those of the past.

I like this mind manipulation theory DRA!

I will be donning my double-layer tinfoil skull-cap and sitting inside my home-made Faraday cage before engaging in my next Rapid challenge!

Sounds like the 1972 Reykjavik all over again!

Tetra_Wolf

Ever heard of someone called Nakamura who has a FIDE blitz rating of 2851 and a chess.com blitz rating of more than 3000, Dr_Roman_Anton?

Tetra_Wolf
Dr_Roman_Anton wrote:

1) ELOs must be comparable in chess - undeniable

2) Chess.com and Online-Chess site ELO rating is 300-900 ELO points to low - undeniable

3) ELO distributions show that up to 1000 ELO points are missing all players

4) Scientific ELO-Tests show that up to 900 ELO points are missing per player

5) The chess puzzle and lesson rating on CHess.com are show that 400 ELO point are missing

6) The 1600 games in chess.com show 2000-level chess play in opening, mid game and ending

7) There is frequently a grandmaster-level game at the ELO of 1600 - with no or only minimal weak moves - this corresponds to a level of 2000 ELO not 1600 ELO

7) It doesnt matter how well you apply or would apply your chess knowledge - if there are not enough ELO points in the system you will always stay in the "15-16-hundred Tower" what the players call the phenomenon that they cannot explain 

 

>>>> BY UNARGUABLE EVIDENCE THE ELO OF EVERY PLAYER IS TOO LOW  <<<<

One feels so historic in this discussion - all chess players will thank it if you make that change.

 

 

This is absolutely clear. Many hundreds of ELO points are missing

You really think that? I would have an FIDE rating of about 1400 using the converter system from other federations, but my tactics rating is about 2350.

TC2304

Also, does the OP have a clue about tournament chess where you get your real ratings? In the new FIDE ratings, I came out as 1914 (admittedly I'm still a bit underrated) but I would absolutely crush the "2000" level OP. 

Real world experience is far more valuable than manipulated statistics. I wonder if the OP would even be able to get a FIDE rating (considering you can't get a rating lower than 1000).