say people use this feature in bullet chess?
New suggested feature for V3 - bonus minutes!
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I think it's all right - if something urgent happens (important phone calls, your baby cries, girlfriend interrupting, someone's at your door, mailman, water is boiling, you need to go to the toilet, etc.).
You don't get THAT many minutes that you can actually ABUSE the bonus - so there's no problem, even in bullet.
Maybe in bullet they need to award the bonus minutes more sparsely - say, once every FIFTEEN games, not once every six - with the formula for B>=5 being H=15+5*(B-4).
ok.
I like the idea of bonus minutes and the implementation , ofc, is brilliant. the problem (well besides the fact that cc doesn't generally want to stray from copying OTB chess) is the idea of "an honestly played game"
let us first establish, that this feature must be automatic and that there are FAR too many games (esp blitz) for any human being to review each and every game. now IF it is automatic- it will have difficulty with insults.
any system you implement regarding monitoring chat, will fail in one way or another to understand what an insult is. for example- someone could say something very awful but abreviate it so that a keyword search doesn't work. OTOH, another person may be saying some pretty bad stuff but insist their Opponent is a close friend, and that is just a little "good nature" trash talking.
Moving on to the ever-tricky and very common complaint against Disconnects. ofc the moment you exclude any one awards cuz of this- thousands of users will become ticked off, cuz they will claim that their internet connection is poor and disconnects are NOT their fault. Others will claim hypocracy saying the system hurts those with poor connections but doesn't do anything to those that just wait, connected and all- wait for their opponent to get bored.
then you will get a zillion of the normal.
"UserXY" should not get his rewards cuz he didn't resign when he was lost
"UseraB" should Not get his rewards cuz I mouseslipped and draw offered and he didn't accept
"UserZ" should not get his rewards cuz the runner wouldn't rematch to allow me to have White. he got his points and Ran!
......
and on and on and on.
basically, the problem truly is that on chess.com there IS no "honest player" cause people have conflicting expectations of what their opponent should do.
so IMHO, I think cc does what it should do regard players. a point for the win- a time limit for disconnecting- and a way to stop chat for those that are rude.
BTW, another thing you should think through is how will it effect ratings. will it be used for example to boost bullet scores (where time is SO important)?
or should a "boosted" game count less- as if you were lower rated? and would your lesser rating be shown?
perhaps one of the features that compliment this that might help with the chat. is a score that the opponent can give you to describe your ethics. such a score would not change your rating gain (or loss) per se, but could be used to tweak bonus minutes.
besides, there has been a fairly loud and consistent call for chess.com to allow people to "rate" their opponents on the fairness of their game.
<The Great Patzer>
Thanks for your post!
True - insults are hard to follow, so only obvious cases would count, and people will be penalized (somewhat - as this is a BONUS feature) for friendly banter in some cases.
Regarding disconnection - so yes, any type of disconnection breaks the sequence, honest or not. Again - it's a BONUS feature, so we can set some conditions for its receipt - and people will poor connections will not benefit.
The feature is for those who only need it OCCASIONALLY - not for those who disconnect regularly, even if it's not their fault.
As bonus minutes aren't that many (as the implementation is indeed brilliant 
) - it won't be abused much, by people who "wait in order to bore their opponent". Make the calculations - you'll see that you can only effectively "bore" your opponent very rarely (say by using three consecutive bonus minutes in a blitz game) - and the price is, that you won't have bonus minutes when you will really need them.
Users B, Z, and XY WILL get bonus minutes, regardless of the claims against them...
The "honest games" will be as defined in the OP: games which you play and win, draw or lose without disconnecting, without running down a clock instead of resigning, and without badmouthing the opponent in any way (as the automatic detectors can detect, no more, no less).
The system cannot be used to boost ratings - both because the pauses will be rare, and because the board will be invisible during them (for the player who pauses).
A game with pauses will not count less or more for ratings.
Scores from the opponent re. ethics are an interesting idea - so long as the opponent's OWN ethics score is taken into account in weighting the importance of the ethics score he gave to YOU. In that case, Bonus minutes will only be available for players who score above 8/10, for example. But this can be a problematic concept to implement, for various reasons.
its a really thoughtful idea, and I think chess.com should strongly consider it-
but I have a situation for you to consider....
suppose a guy, Mr grumpy (who's attitude is very much like the meaning of his username), plays someone- or just about plays someone.
- can he insist that the guy heplays doesn't have or Can't use his bonus minutes
- can he Abort a new game when he learns that his opponent has bonus minutes
- what if he never learns that his opponent has bonus minutes- what does he see when the game is paused (we've clarified that his opponent sees a count-down clock)?
- what if Mr grumps comes on here- the chess.com forums and calls chess.com scum, his opponent, his ex-wife, the fillipino president. and then tries to pin all of them into a conspiracy- While his game is running ofc
ok the last situation was a little loud, but what about this situation of abandoning games, and being rude other places. would mutes count agianst you? would mutes stop you from using this "bonus" feature?
and hos easy would it be to see a persons bonus or to predict when said person wants to use.
not doubt many details could be finalized fairly by extensive conversation between cc staff and you.
dealing with abandoning games, upset customers, and just general mayhem as a new and complex feature is being thought through by thousands of teenagers- these will be the issues that cc thinks of.
BTW, if it were me I would say "yes". its not actually that different than the "vacation" on Daily chess.
PPS. undoubtably Mr grumpy would make a long, trollish and unnecessarily nasty note on the forums, telling us all how much he hates us and how much better the ABC* chess website is
(* I'm obviously not going to name names. cc like any business has competitors- and they aint hard to find)
Quick thought.
Player Z MUST do the rematch. thats rough. I'm not sure I'm with you on that. would their be deductions for not taking a draw request- when a computer engines says its an even game?
Dear TheGreatPatzer,
I'm happy that you like the feature I suggested!
Here I will answer your new questions:
suppose a guy, Mr grumpy (who's attitude is very much like the meaning of his username), plays someone- or just about plays someone.
- can he insist that the guy heplays doesn't have or Can't use his bonus minutes
No, he can't. Bonus minutes are personal and individual and nobody can protest the fact that another user has them.
By the way - it's an idea to make "bonus minutes" optional (I call this manner of implementation Option B, and my OP idea Option A)
A player will have to enable the option - and then that player may be allowed to use them - and you will also be able to use them when playing against him.
If this is the modality that will be accepted - you will be able to choose to only play people who enable bonus minutes, to only play people who don't - or to play people indifferently of their choice on the matter.
- can he Abort a new game when he learns that his opponent has bonus minutes
In option B it's unnecessary. In option A I would say no - and I would add that a game that you ABORT also resets your "honestly-played games" count.
- what if he never learns that his opponent has bonus minutes- what does he see when the game is paused (we've clarified that his opponent sees a count-down clock)?
This I didn't get.
If I play you, when I PAUSE and it's MY TURN to play - YOU see -
* That I PAUSED
* How many SECONDS I have available on my BONUS MINUTES
* How many MORE bonus minutes I STILL have,
* Am I in CONTINUOUS MODE (see OP) and -
* Did I PAUSE because of disconnection or not.
- what if Mr grumps comes on here- the chess.com forums and calls chess.com scum, his opponent, his ex-wife, the fillipino president. and then tries to pin all of them into a conspiracy- While his game is running ofc
ok the last situation was a little loud, but what about this situation of abandoning games, and being rude other places. would mutes count agianst you? would mutes stop you from using this "bonus" feature?
Such situation are already handled by mods and the rest of the community in the forums... no change.
and hos easy would it be to see a persons bonus or to predict when said person wants to use.
You probably can't predict it - and there's no reason for you to know how much BONUS they have before they actually USE it when playing you.
not doubt many details could be finalized fairly by extensive conversation between cc staff and you.
Certainly - although I think that you're doing a great job yourself in this regard :-)
Staff can (if they so wish) take note of our conversation here.
dealing with abandoning games, upset customers, and just general mayhem as a new and complex feature is being thought through by thousands of teenagers- these will be the issues that cc thinks of.
I'm no longer a teenager by any stretch of the word (not even in Martian years!) - but teenagers can of course contribute to the idea, no problem.
BTW, if it were me I would say "yes". its not actually that different than the "vacation" on Daily chess.
You're right :-) Thanks for pointing out the similarity - I really haven't noticed :-) but it's quite an exact parallel!
PPS. undoubtably Mr grumpy would make a long, trollish and unnecessarily nasty note on the forums, telling us all how much he hates us and how much better the ABC* chess website is
In option B he will have no problem - but I'm not convinced that it's better than option A. You made me actually consider two equally valid options where in the beginning I only saw one...
(* I'm obviously not going to name names. cc like any business has competitors- and they aint hard to find)
<The Great Patzer> again -
Quick thought.
Player Z MUST do the rematch. thats rough.
Hmmm... where did you get that?
I never said that anybody should or shouldn't grant a rematch...
The rematch issue is irrelevant to the BONUS MINUTES feature - and I don't think anybody owes a rematch to anybody.
I'm not sure I'm with you on that.
Check the above...
would their be deductions for not taking a draw request- when a computer engines says its an even game?
No.
Bonus minutes won't ever be DEDUCTED as a penalty.
Bonus minutes are accumulated through playing sequences of honestly-played games
An honestly-played game is redefined (there's a slight modification now) as - a game which you play and win, draw or lose without disconnecting, without aborting, without running down a clock instead of resigning, and without badmouthing the opponent in any way.
If your opponent aborted, the game still counts - except when the opponent aborted the game before you played your third move (in which case the game does not count, but the sequence is not interrupted).
ok. then.
no penalizing stuff like failing to take rematches, or take draw requests. Good.
mostly then you give a guy who plays a fair game a chance for a bathroom break,etc. just like you give a guy who plays good on Daily chess a little extra (but measured) vacation time....
I'm on board. lets see if there are any further comments from anybody.
:-) !!!!
basically, mini vacation time in live chess
Correct - with the necessary adjustments.
I updated the OP in light of our discussion here.
The updates are about aborting games, accumulating bonus minutes when playing bullet, and making BONUS MINUTES optional for players.
I know that there's another update I need to make - but I can't remember what it is... (no, you can't help me - it's something I didn't mention yet).
So you're using V3 more now?
I'm using it from a month.
I'm using V3 exclusively now :-) said my goodbyes to V2 (which was great in itself) about a month ago, give or take.
I think there needs to be better sportsmanship from lots of players, but adding an extra minute makes that game unfair (especially if low time control)
Well, you know - the board disappears, and you can only use it in real emergencies (or to enjoy it when you get accidentally disconnected) because you're not going to have that time available in EVERY game...
This feature isn't about sportsmanship - it's a way to protect you from losing a game due to non-chess circumstances of short duration. That's the whole idea.
Hi!
I want to suggest a new feature in V3:
Simple idea: for every six consecutive honestly-played rated games, a player is awarded a bonus minute.
A honestly-played game is a game which you play and win, draw or lose without disconnecting, without running down a clock instead of resigning, without aborting and without badmouthing the opponent in any way.
In addition, in these six consecutive games you need to play opponents whose rating average is not lower than both (your current rating - 200) AND (your record rating - 400). Your performance in these six games must be at least (your current rating - 200) AND (your record rating - 400) - this is to prevent "easy minutes" being gotten by not caring about your play or about intentionally selecting weak opposition.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The bonus minute comes into effect when you need a break because of something urgent - you click the "pause" button and your bonus minute counts down.
Your "regular" clock for the game FREEZES so long as you are in pause - if you had 14:32, 3:12 or 0:17 minutes left on your clock - that's how it STAYS until you're back from the pause.
If it's your opponent's turn - his clock keeps running until he makes his move, whether you are still on pause or not. Once he made his move - your own clock remains FROZEN until you're back from the pause.
If you only used 20 seconds from your pause - you will still have 40 seconds from that minute available for the next time you need a pause.
The chessboard disappears from the screen while you're on pause, and the display shows how many seconds you still have out of that minute.
There's a "continuous pause" button, for a situation when you have more than one bonus minute and know that you will need more than one.
If you disconnect - your bonus minute(s) is (are) automatically activated until you're back.
Once it's your turn to play, the opponent gets a detailed notification of your pause - how much time you have left out of the bonus minute you're using, how many bonus minutes you still have left, whether or not you chose "continuous pause" mode, and whether or not the pause is due to disconnection.
So long as it's your opponent's turn, he cannot know whether or not you're on a pause. It shouldn't matter to him anyhow...
The opponent may not have the time to wait for you. As soon as he sees that you're on a pause, he gets a "terminate" button, allowing him to end the game immediately.
Once terminated, the position is evaluated by Stockfish at 20 ply. If the position is better for your opponent by at least 0.50, he gets a draw - even if he has mate in one. If it's around equal or worse for your opponent - it's like he resigned the game. This tweak was thought about in a way that prevents abuse from both sides.
ADDITIONAL TWEAK: if your opponent is rated below you by at least 51 points, then the position needs to be in his favor by at least (the difference in rating / 100) for him to get the draw if he terminates! Forced mate (in any number of moves) will give him the draw regardless of the rating difference, obviously.
You can accumulate up to ten bonus minutes. They are useful for all LIVE time controls - bullet, blitz or rapid.
A game in which you used a bonus minute or any part of it breaks a sequence of consecutive honestly-played games.
Refinement: A way to slightly refine this method is to say that -
instead of getting ONE bonus minute for every SIX consecutive honestly played games -
let B represent the number of bonus minutes you already have, and -
let H represent the number of consecutive honestly-played games you need in order to receive your next bonus minute -
and let the following formula be used:
(where B<=4) H=6
(where B>=5) H=6+2*(B-4)
When playing bullet, the formula will be -
(where B<=4) H=15
(where B>=5) H=15+5*(B-4)
This means that it's pretty easy to accumulate your first five bonus minutes - but after that and up to ten bonus minutes (the maximum), you always need more and more games.
With this refinement, a player will only be able to use a REALLY long pause (over 5 minutes) very rarely - but in case he generally doesn't use pauses, the feature will be available when he will need it.
It's also possible to let all players with a good "fair play" record start with 10 introductory bonus minutes as the feature is activated.
There's also an OPTION B for implementing bonus minutes (where my original OP idea would be OPTION A).
In OPTION B player will have to enable the BONUS MINUTES option - and then that player may be allowed to use them - and you will also be able to use them when playing against him.
If this is the modality that will be ultimately accepted by chess.com - you should be able to choose between only playing people who enable bonus minutes, only playing people who don't - or playing people indifferently of their choice on the matter.