copying moves from other board

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ace_olofsson
Just wonder if in a tournament with several games playing it is fair to copy exact moves made in another game (by another player) in the same tournament. It seems border to cheating? I mean you can always look at the higher rank player what move he made and do the same. I’m asking because it’s been 20 moves that is exactly the same and moving only exactly after the other player (in the other game).
notmtwain
ace_olofsson wrote:
Just wonder if in a tournament with several games playing it is fair to copy exact moves made in another game (by another player) in the same tournament. It seems border to cheating? I mean you can always look at the higher rank player what move he made and do the same. I’m asking because it’s been 20 moves that is exactly the same and moving only exactly after the other player (in the other game).

Is this daily chess? Unless this person is playing a database, one of the opponents will vary. 

If it continues, what do you think the report button is for?

macer75
notmtwain wrote:
ace_olofsson wrote:
Just wonder if in a tournament with several games playing it is fair to copy exact moves made in another game (by another player) in the same tournament. It seems border to cheating? I mean you can always look at the higher rank player what move he made and do the same. I’m asking because it’s been 20 moves that is exactly the same and moving only exactly after the other player (in the other game).

Is this daily chess? Unless this person is playing a database, one of the opponents will vary. 

If it continues, what do you think the report button is for?

For snitches?

notmtwain
macer75 wrote:
notmtwain wrote:
ace_olofsson wrote:
Just wonder if in a tournament with several games playing it is fair to copy exact moves made in another game (by another player) in the same tournament. It seems border to cheating? I mean you can always look at the higher rank player what move he made and do the same. I’m asking because it’s been 20 moves that is exactly the same and moving only exactly after the other player (in the other game).

Is this daily chess? Unless this person is playing a database, one of the opponents will vary. 

If it continues, what do you think the report button is for?

For snitches?

Ha ha.

ace_olofsson
Yeah it’s daily basis. Two games, two identical plays up until 10 moves, he plays in both games. Copied both w and b, so it’s 20 identical moves, quite a lot.
notmtwain
ace_olofsson wrote:
Yeah it’s daily basis. Two games, two identical plays up until 10 moves, he plays in both games. Copied both w and b, so it’s 20 identical moves, quite a lot.

Well 10 moves is not very much these days, since people can use databases for daily chess.

KeSetoKaiba

This would not help you much, even if it is allowed. You are basically just playing moves from "higher rated" players, but this also is the basis for literally about anyone reading any decent book specializing in an opening (as the authors tend to be "higher rated"). 

Even if you had an entire book, or database, memorized (versus watching a single player at once) - your opponent would deviate somewhere along the way. Chess has about 10^43 legal chess positions (Shannon number, named after mathematician Claude Shannon)! That is 1 with 43 zeroes after it! Your game next to you at any event (with opponent deviation of course) would likely not be identical to yours, even if you tried to copy it - and me saying "likely not" is an understatement.

If you really have a great memory and desire to piggyback off of a "higher rated" player's game, then you have a much higher chance of learning "opening traps" or other not so sound lines, where the opponent may play exactly as a famous game goes. I am sure that many games have identical moves from start to end with the Blackburn Shilling Gambit; but it is also worth noting that even Blackburne knew this was not really sound. Blackburn has no recorded events in which he played this line - this line he invented to win shillings as a hustler, on the street, when not at an event (hence the named opening).

In short, this idea of yours won't reliably work because your opponent would deviate much more often than not; chess is too rich of a game via far too many positions to memorize - a successful chess player needs to think for themselves, at least sometimes wink.png

ace_olofsson
Okay so here’s a better explanation. There are two games. He’s playing in both games (A and B), in one game with w(A) in the other with b(B). He always move from what the other board is doing, being it w or b. So this means they will always be identical (if he doesn’t move first which he doesn’t), he just waits until the other player at the other board (board B) move before he copies (on board A), then, whatever reply he gets (board A), he moves the same on the other board (board B).
That’s how two boards are the same and can stay the same.
KeSetoKaiba

Ah okay then, I think I understand what you mean then. Of course, wouldn't this potentially get you into time trouble (as you wait - that is if I do get what you are saying).

Also, if you mean exact coping in same game (you might not be) they tend to be drawish (like e4 e5, c4 c5, g4 g5 and so on).

Regardless if you are referring to your original post (I answered in #7) or playing what someone else plays (answered in first point in this post) or copying mirrored or opposing moves (as described in the second point in this post): all of these points seem to be not favorable for you.

I am not certain I FULLY get your "copying" idea here, so hopefully at least one of my responses is close enough. However, in them all (and others) this may be more work for you than simply learning to think for yourself in chess. I realize that your "copying" here may just be hypothetical as a way to exploit lack of chess tournament regulations, but even so I believe that this lack is not necessary as it is not a favorable enough stunt to try in a tournament. Does this adequately answer enough, or am I still far off?

 

ace_olofsson
Hi KeSetoKaiba

Playing two games, copying the other boards w and the first game copying the black, but waiting for the other player to move first. (Read my second post.)

NOT e4-e5, etc, that is mirroring, also that’s w copying b.

So w( on board A) copying the other board w on board B), b (on board B) copying w (on board B).
KeSetoKaiba

Okay I think I finally get it now (hopefully wink.png).

Essentially, you have engineered a situation that is a closed system where you (theoretically) have an infinite loop supplying you moves (somewhat clever, by the way happy.png).

I would assume there would be some rule(s) preventing this in rated events, but I am not too well versed in chess rulings and tournament scenarios. I would imagine that (despite not asking verbally) this would count as some sort of "asking for advice". "Kibitz" is the term that comes to mind. Chess players call a third party "kibitzing" when they offer advice. Kibitzing is clearly banned in rated, non-team, events for obvious reasons; however, if your opponent allows kibitzing (often in casual, friendly, games where the opponent allowing you to get advice is a far stronger player) then it can serve as a great learning experience and tool for improvement (as you theoretically are playing tougher competition more competitively, even if helped).

I would think that your manufactured situation would count your watching another board to imitate as "Kibitzing" - calling the other board a "third party"; this may be true regardless of the players, perhaps even including yourself in a simultaneous event. 

Again, I am not too well versed in rated event chess rules - so my expertise is exhausted here. I hope someone else posts with knowledge of such rules, but this would be my guess at this situation.

Ask me a golf ruling, and I can answer off memory (I've read that rule book from start to end before); but ask me a chess ruling, and this is the caliber of answer you get wink.png

ace_olofsson
Okay thanks. I’m still not sure if it was explained good enough, the thing with this is that he have to wait for the other opponent to move first, so that he can copy that move and play it on the other board, then wait for that same person to reply, and copy that move and go back to the board he started with. It takes time, but he uses his vacation time. They are rated games. I have never seen anything like this before.
It’s about 100-200 difference in rating.
testaaaaa

Just like this

ace_olofsson
Just like what? I cannot see anything.
testaaaaa

i did post a video, did you not see it it shows the magician you cant play chess beating masters in a simul by letting them play against each other-of course he losses as many games as he wins

ace_olofsson
I’m on my phone, maybe that’s why I cannot see your link, it’s just a blank white soace.
Heather_Stephens

So he has decided to take 1 point out of a possible. Win and loss; or Draw and draw.

Sounds cowardly and clever. I would tell his 2 opponents what was happening. One of them could go on vacation - he would go no vacation - then the other player goes on vacation, and he cannot.

Heather_Stephens

'no vacation' should be 'on vacation'.

testaaaaa

i posted so cool videos in other threads and got no reaction maybe they cant see it as well noooo

testaaaaa

you can type "derren brown beats 9 chess players simultaneously" in youtube that should do it