You shouldn't be punishing people after they do something. You should be stoping people Before they do something
Chess Cheating Hits New High!
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davidegpc wrote:
nonowho wrote:
You shouldn't be punishing people after they do something. You should be stoping people Before they do something
You cannot punish before a crime is committed, but if you want to live in that kind of society, hey start to pay the tickets for all the times you passed the speed limit, and go to the police to denounce yourself every time you do it.
Further from your flag I see you are from US, come on, is not enough all the black people you put in jail for 20 or more years, to discover they didn't do the crime? What would you do open mass concentration camps for future crimes? Or punish the intention? Ridicolous, hope one day some people are mature enough to understand what they ask for.
Chill dude, he said "stoping.... before" [sic] not "punishing before".
davidegpc wrote:
nonowho wrote:
You shouldn't be punishing people after they do something. You should be stoping people Before they do something
*rant*
The key word there is "stoping", not punishing; We need to stope people from cheating in the first place. And such stoping measures are already in place at least in the U.S.; Cell phone use is prohibited in all tournaments, and electronics, like headphones, are prohibited in most major ones. Now, if a player has something that can be used fore cheating, the TD will stope them.
EDIT: Prawn's way ahead of me.
davidegpc wrote:
nonowho wrote:
You shouldn't be punishing people after they do something. You should be stoping people Before they do something
You cannot punish before a crime is committed, but if you want to live in that kind of society, hey start to pay the tickets for all the times you passed the speed limit, and go to the police to denounce yourself every time you do it.
Further from your flag I see you are from US, come on, is not enough all the black people you put in jail for 20 or more years, to discover they didn't do the crime? What would you do open mass concentration camps for future crimes? Or punish the intention? Ridicolous, hope one day some people are mature enough to understand what they ask for.
God America is so bad to black people thats why we have a black president, black attorney general, black supreme court justice wait a minute........
davidegpc wrote:
Jebcc wrote:
davidegpc wrote:
nonowho wrote:
You shouldn't be punishing people after they do something. You should be stoping people Before they do something
You cannot punish before a crime is committed, but if you want to live in that kind of society, hey start to pay the tickets for all the times you passed the speed limit, and go to the police to denounce yourself every time you do it.
Further from your flag I see you are from US, come on, is not enough all the black people you put in jail for 20 or more years, to discover they didn't do the crime? What would you do open mass concentration camps for future crimes? Or punish the intention? Ridicolous, hope one day some people are mature enough to understand what they ask for.
God America is so bad to black people thats why we have a black president, black attorney general, black supreme court justice wait a minute........
No you are right America is so good to black people, they are also allowed to play basket! And when do you return to have different fontanels? MLK died of natural death in his bed right? You confuse the hollywood photo op, to look good in front of the world, because US invades foreign countries and kills million civilians to rob oil and other resources, with the reality of the black Americans which evidently are not treated in the same way, or maybe read something about Florida and Bush elections, it will help you to refresh your memory.
you really put me in my place davidegpc. what is a fontanel? man i wish i could ball like lebron i wouldn't be fooling with this chess site.
Future looks bleak for chess with regard cheating I'm afraid. It's only going to get harder to detect cheating as technology advances, miniaturizes further, human/machine interfacing becomes more common, etc. Even now there's under-the-skin transmitters are common. But even non-tech methods aren't that hard to divise - they may need to move players into 'isolation chambers' for real.
How about making it mandatory that tournament players annotate each move they make? Actually maybe hat wouldn't be that hard to fake...
Computers will kill chess off eventually.
I'd comment on the whole racism thing, but seeing as how a Supreme Court justice called my town the most racist in America, I had better not. 
Anyway, I personally think that the anti-cheating measures the FIDE takes are a bit too light...
isolation chamber with a toilet/no doors? Is that what you're trying to say?
I didn't quite expect this thread to turn in this direction...
not sure how this nonsense about racism, black presidents, etc.. came up but thanks for the feedback/ideas about the original cheating post!
OnlineChessLessons wrote:
not sure how this nonsense about racism, black presidents, etc.. came up but thanks for the feedback/ideas about the original cheating post!
apologies OnlineChessLessons i found your post interesting and i read post #3 and i felt compelled to respond.
Cheating is a terrible burden in professional chess. Steroids in baseball and point shaving in the NBA come to mind. Hopefully the chess community will take this seriously and this era will be known, in the past tense, as the cheating era.
alearthcore19 wrote:
isolation chamber with a toilet/no doors? Is that what you're trying to say?
I think transparant walls (and a transparent toilet would be a nice touch) would be better, and players play in the nudey.
Discuss. :)
How about you just say from the moment you sit down at the chessboard and play your first move, you are not allowed to leave the board under any circumstances or else you forfeit the match. It works in the school chess tournaments I play in, so why can't it work in world championship matches too?
Considering how people cheat in personal relationships ( and some even brag of their cheating ) and in all other areas of life I dont know why cheating at chess comes as a surprise to anyone. I think a lot of this has to do with the social engineering/experiments on the youth. Teaching there is no right/wrong and bankrupt ideas like "situational ethics " can only lead to such a society ! In criminal fraud cases ( doesnt this always involve money ? ) you can do serious time if convicted. I am all for charging those who cheat in chess ( and other sports/games ) with criminal fraud when it involves large sums of money.
Deranged wrote:
How about you just say from the moment you sit down at the chessboard and play your first move, you are not allowed to leave the board under any circumstances or else you forfeit the match. It works in the school chess tournaments I play in, so why can't it work in world championship matches too?
what if I need to pee ?
Deranged wrote:
How about you just say from the moment you sit down at the chessboard and play your first move, you are not allowed to leave the board under any circumstances or else you forfeit the match. It works in the school chess tournaments I play in, so why can't it work in world championship matches too?
Some games in amateur tournaments go on for 3+ hours and in professional 6+ hours. No bathroom at all seems a wee bit extreme. Also I find that standing up and glancing at other peoples games without leaving the room , using electronic devices etc can help me..
kco wrote:
Deranged wrote:
How about you just say from the moment you sit down at the chessboard and play your first move, you are not allowed to leave the board under any circumstances or else you forfeit the match. It works in the school chess tournaments I play in, so why can't it work in world championship matches too?
what if I need to pee ?
I'm sure they could rig up some kind of suction tube device.
b1_ wrote:
kco wrote:
Deranged wrote:
How about you just say from the moment you sit down at the chessboard and play your first move, you are not allowed to leave the board under any circumstances or else you forfeit the match. It works in the school chess tournaments I play in, so why can't it work in world championship matches too?
what if I need to pee ?
I'm sure they could rig up some kind of suction tube device.
and who gonna clean up if there been an accident 
1. A covert earpiece to receive transmissions from a distant accomplice who is using a supercomputer to suggest moves (ex. 2006 World Open, 2 players were disqualified)
2. A strong player posing under a weak player’s name to cash in on an easier section (ex. 1993, John von Neumann at the World Open in Philadelphia)
3. Classical Collusion: A weaker player leaving the board to receive advice from a stronger player (ex. 2002 World Open, 2 Russian players working together)
4. Taking multiple trips to the bathroom to consult a PDA/chess engine (ex. Alleged and Unproven “Toiletgate” Scandal – 2006 World Championship Match between Topalov & Kramnik: in 1 game Kramnik went to the bathroom more than 50times)
5. Internet Chess – Cheating by using a computer program (ex. 2004, GM Arkadi Naiditsch)
6. Cell phones – principally receiving texts from an accomplice using a computer (ex. 2010, select members of the French Olympiad team)
So why do players Cheat in Chess?
Historically there was not much money to be made by winning chess tournaments. However, since Bobby Fischer demanded legitimate prize funds in the mid 20th century to support professional players – tournament wins actually equate to significant prizes. And not just at the top level – The annual World Open in Philadelphia boasts a guaranteed total prize fund of $225,000 USD, with 1st place prizes per section ranging from 12k (U-1300) to 25k (Open section).
Cheating happens at all levels, and counter-security measures and punishments need to be taken more seriously. As evidenced by the recent scandal involving 3 players from the French Olympiad team in Ukraine, 2010 – cheating may occur at the top level. One of the defendants in this case, Sebastien Feller, won the 2010 Paris Championship with an impressive 8/9 points and a whopping 2859 performance rating. How can organizers and participants be sure that he was not receiving assistance in this tournament as well?
Preventive measures to counteract cheating in chess need to be given higher priority, and punishments need to be made more severe.
Prevention
It appears that the use of radio-frequency/cell phone jamming devices may be necessary at top-level tournaments and tournaments with large cash prizes (such as the World Open in Philadelphia) to prevent the incorrect use of cell phones and covert earpieces. Also, tournament directors need to be more attentive to leading players in later rounds at large prize tournaments, as these players could be receiving assistance via other methods.Crime & Punishment