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Why most of the great chess players are jews?

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Meadmaker
Vo1d3mort wrote:
TheBigDecline wrote:
ConnorMacleod_151 wrote:

What the hell has religion gotta do with chess ???

Have you never heard of the importance of the bishop pair ???

Hmm you are right, didn't see it this way. Aren't some people offended, that it is 2 bishops and not 2 rabbis or 2 imams ? Isn't this a clear case of religious discrimination ? :D

And why is the king crowned with a cross, will it be removed (let's say from the official FIDE chess set) because of a breach of religious neutrality ?

At the recent World Youth Chess Championship, held in the United Arab Emirates, the king's cross was replaced with a crescent.  I don't know if that is normal for chess pieces sold in Muslim and/or Arab majority parts of the world.

 

As for the relationship between religion and intelligense or chess playing, I think most people will agree that religion doesn't make people smartor good chess players.  However, that isn't the question.  Ashkenazi Jews (most European Jews) represented a small and partially isolated population, breeding mostly among themselves.  There are several genetic markers very commonly associated with Jewish ancestry.  Could some of those genetic markers contribute to increased intelligense?  It's certainly possible.

 

Also, within the Jewish community, scholarship is far more valued than in many societies.  I had heard that, but I wasn't aware how deep it is. I am not Jewish by ancestry, but after I married into a Jewish family and became more intimately aware of the extent of that connection.  For example, when instructing children in how to be good, typically we tell them to be nice to other people, to say good things, to respect their elders, etc.  In the top 2 or 3 in Jewish examples, "always doing your homework" or "pay attention in school", will always be listed.  In Jewish obituaries, college degrees will always be listed, frequently before the profession.

This obsession with scholarship comes from the obsession with study of Torah and Talmud.  It's a particular style of study that seeks out relationships and digs deep into the meaning of words. That sort of study, strongly encouraged among all religious Jews, involves really deep textual analysis.  (I'm not religious, so I don't have a lot of respect for spending so much time digging into the exact meaning of bronze age legends, but that's what they do.)

It's so deeply ingrained in Jewish society that it probably has some sort of evolutionary advantage.  In most societies, being a great warrior is highly valued.  In Jewish societies, being a great scholar is highly valued, and can lead to finanical reward and mating success, especially in a society with arranged marriages.  Is the Jewish community sufficiently isolated that in a relatively short 2,000 years of evolutionary time, smart people might have had a mating advantage that is reflected in Jewish gene pools?  It is at least possible.

But, regardless of whether or not it is true, it doesn't have much effect.  If Jewish people are, on average, slightly more inclined toward chess talent or intelligence, it is a small effect, and it won't be true for long.  It seems unlikely that the populations will be sufficiently isolated in the modern world, and any correlation will soon disappear.

ConnorMacleod_151

That was a lot to read on new years day....pheww!!

Ubik42
Vo1d3mort wrote:
TheBigDecline wrote:
ConnorMacleod_151 wrote:

What the hell has religion gotta do with chess ???

Have you never heard of the importance of the bishop pair ???

Hmm you are right, didn't see it this way. Aren't some people offended, that it is 2 bishops and not 2 rabbis or 2 imams ? Isn't this a clear case of religious discrimination ? :D

And why is the king crowned with a cross, will it be removed (let's say from the official FIDE chess set) because of a breach of religious neutrality ?

I am an atheist and I have no issues with it whatsoever. The bishop to me is a name of a piece in chess. If I see a Bishop walking down the street in real life, I am more likely to chuckle and say "hah...he is named after a chess piece!"

ConnorMacleod_151
CalistoLez wrote:

well I'm not jewish....

()

lmao!!

iMacChess
I think the question should've been asked how such a small group of people (Jews) have such a high percentage of success in chess and science. I mean the world has over 7 billion people in it and only 12.9 million are Jewish. Jews make up only 0.2% of the world population, yet comprise 22% of Nobel laureates and have a large percentage in the world chess championships. What's the deal? I don't think it has anything to do with genetics or religion but I do think it has a lot to do with culture. The Jewish culture prides itself on education...
MISTERGQ

resposting : 

 

There are no significant biological differences in Jews than in any other socially constructed group of humans.

As for reasons of Jewish success? I'd say that the power of being oppressed for thousands of years led them to become a tight knit group that was hugely supportive of each other. Each member giving proper support to what each member wanted to do, and this help and support allows humans to succeed and do marvelous things.

 

The lesson of the jewish people is that coming together and supporting your friends and family will lead to success for all.

zborg

Very smart people.  But poor round-ball players.  It's a tradeoff, apparently.

Just ask Jon Stewart, (*born Jonathan Stuart Leibowitz; November 28, 1962).

Priincess_Molestia

all normal human  can become great player just like me

denner
Ubik42 wrote:
denner90 wrote:

Are Muslims a separate race? How about different castes in India? There are many groups fanatical about breeding only among themselves, this does not constitute a racial divide. I'll grant that Middle Eastern Jews and other Arabic/Persian peoples may be genectically distinct, there you have millenia of division based on religion, but this does not spread out into other ethnicities due strictly to how they worship their god. It does not even make sense. Like I said ,skewed sample with an agenda.

It doesnt make sense because that isnt the claim. When you have to keep constructing strawmen, its usually a sign of something .

Dude, that is your claim. Your "study" claims that Jews are gentically distinct from other people such as certian racial groups are, based on their religion yet when I call you out on it you keep saying "if that were the claim" and "that isn't the claim". Well which is it? If that isn't your claim then what is?

Amnesiack

Yeah, I think there's a correlation between either you or your families belief in the Old Testament and your abilities to manoeuvre 16 pieces around 64 squares to achieve the arbitrary goal of checkmate. But seriously there's probably more correlation between the areas that Judaism is the main religion and the prominence of chess in the local culture.

nameno1had
zborg wrote:

Very smart people.  But poor round-ball players.  It's a tradeoff, apparently.

Just ask Jon Stewart, (*born Jonathan Stuart Leibowitz; November 28, 1962).

Not in every case...but in general, there is definitely some truth to your idea

real_tzs
Meadmaker wrote:

At the recent World Youth Chess Championship, held in the United Arab Emirates, the king's cross was replaced with a crescent.  I don't know if that is normal for chess pieces sold in Muslim and/or Arab majority parts of the world.

Some sets had a crescent, but most had a cross.

nameno1had
denner90 wrote:
Ubik42 wrote:
denner90 wrote:

Are Muslims a separate race? How about different castes in India? There are many groups fanatical about breeding only among themselves, this does not constitute a racial divide. I'll grant that Middle Eastern Jews and other Arabic/Persian peoples may be genectically distinct, there you have millenia of division based on religion, but this does not spread out into other ethnicities due strictly to how they worship their god. It does not even make sense. Like I said ,skewed sample with an agenda.

It doesnt make sense because that isnt the claim. When you have to keep constructing strawmen, its usually a sign of something .

Dude, that is your claim. Your "study" claims that Jews are gentically distinct from other people such as certian racial groups are, based on their religion yet when I call you out on it you keep saying "if that were the claim" and "that isn't the claim". Well which is it? If that isn't your claim then what is?

 I get so tired of that accusation. Once a people who is seperated genetically from all others, "REGARDLESS OF THE REASON", and then begin to breed amongst themselves, seperate themselves genetically. Their features become distinct amongst that of other races. After the orginal inception of the progenitors of the Jewish people and before much of the modern proselytization, the only Jews were descendants genetically of the patriarch and matriarch. There are some exceptions and yes they had to follow the religion but, the gene pool I speak of that is distinct from all others was created, despite anyone's attemtps to deny its existence.

How do you think the races that, you accept as races, became distinct in the first place ?  Seperation is the answer...this is what caused the differences between them...

PS...you can practice Judiasm, without being ethnically, or hereditarily Jewish...which is to be descended from the patriarch of Israel


pdela

there are some mindblowing stuff...

http://www.jinfo.org/Physicists.html

pdela

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_Nobel_laureates#Physics

nameno1had

An ignorant bigot's worst fears realized...

..they should comply with government, moral and or religious principles that have Jewish roots...

real_tzs
MISTERGQ wrote:

There are no significant biological differences in Jews than in any other socially constructed group of humans.

So would you explain the high rate of Tay-Sachs disease in Ashkenazi Jews as being due to them having a supportive community that comes together for friends and family? Same for Neimann-Pick disease. Or Familial dysautonomia? Gaucher's disease?

nameno1had
real_tzs wrote:
MISTERGQ wrote:

There are no significant biological differences in Jews than in any other socially constructed group of humans.

So would you explain the high rate of Tay-Sachs disease in Ashkenazi Jews as being due to them having a supportive community that comes together for friends and family? Same for Neimann-Pick disease. Or Familial dysautonomia? Gaucher's disease?

Becareful, they'll show up and blame it on all on religion or lack there of...Undecided

DrFrank124c
nameno1had wrote:
real_tzs wrote:
MISTERGQ wrote:

There are no significant biological differences in Jews than in any other socially constructed group of humans.

So would you explain the high rate of Tay-Sachs disease in Ashkenazi Jews as being due to them having a supportive community that comes together for friends and family? Same for Neimann-Pick disease. Or Familial dysautonomia? Gaucher's disease?

Becareful, they'll show up and blame it on all on religion or lack there of...

Jews are inbred. That accounts for their big brains, small penises and nasty attitudes. 

MISTERGQ
real_tzs wrote:
MISTERGQ wrote:

There are no significant biological differences in Jews than in any other socially constructed group of humans.

So would you explain the high rate of Tay-Sachs disease in Ashkenazi Jews as being due to them having a supportive community that comes together for friends and family? Same for Neimann-Pick disease. Or Familial dysautonomia? Gaucher's disease?

 

Non-Significant difference. Those are just hereditary traits. Nothing to do with people being superior to others. I didn't say there weren't genetic differences, but that there were no significant differences. 

IE meaning that no genetic difference is responsible for an ethnic jew to be better at chess than another. To say otherwise is bad science and racist.

 

Honestly, skills are all explained by neuroplasticisty, and having social and cultural insentives to be proactive in different things.

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