How is the Bulldog World Champion decided?

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Avatar of Martin0
  Player Rating win loss draw score white
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1 Martin0 1589 11 0 0 100% 5 0 0 100% 6 0 0 100%
2 captaintugwash 1388 4 0 0 100% 2 0 0 100% 2 0 0 100%
3 Junebug444 1367 7 4 0 64% 4 2 0 67% 3 2 0 60%
4 Waredude 1345 4 2 0 67% 3 0 0 100% 1 2 0 33%
5 Fly-Eagles-Fly 1330 3 6 0 33% 1 3 0 25% 2 3 0 40%
6 HorusTheThird 1321 3 2 0 60% 1 2 0 33% 2 0 0 100%
7 evert823 1319 13 7 2 64% 6 2 1 72% 7 5 1 58%
8 JohnHS 1307 6 5 0 55% 2 3 0 40% 4 2 0 67%
9 HorribleTomato 1304 6 4 1 59% 3 2 1 58% 3 2 0 60%
10 Derrickzhou 1300 2 0 0 100% 2 0 0 100% 0 0 0 0%
11 Critica7 1264 1 0 0 100% 1 0 0 100% 0 0 0 0%
12 friedmelon 1262 2 1 0 67% 2 0 0 100% 0 1 0 0%
13 thegreatauk 1236 1 1 1 50% 1 1 0 50% 0 0 1 50%
14 aidanB1 1235 1 3 0 25% 0 3 0 0% 1 0 0 100%
15 knig22 1232 1 1 0 50% 1 0 0 100% 0 1 0 0%
16 vickalan 1226 7 7 1 50% 2 0 0 100% 5 7 1 42%
17 Donkey256 1225 1 1 0 50% 0 0 0 0% 1 1 0 50%
18 unc07 1225 1 1 0 50% 1 1 0 50% 0 0 0 0%
19 FortunaMajor 1213 1 2 0 33% 1 2 0 33% 0 0 0 0%
20 hitthepin 1205 1 5 1 21% 0 2 1 17% 1 3 0 25%
Avatar of Martin0

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Avatar of Fly-Eagles-Fly

Can I participate in the candidate game (The one that will be simultaneous to the Championship challenge game)? Regardless, will the loser of the Tomato vs Tugwash game be in the candidate game?

Avatar of Martin0

Once the committee is established, I'd like a discussion with them who should be participating in the candidate game. But, I'd like the only way to get a guaranteed spot at the candidate game is to have the highest rating (disregarding the rating for those in the challenge game). So you should get the highest rating by the time the first candidate game ends for a guaranteed spot. The second spot I want to be selected by the committee. Personally I would look for impressive result, such as winning the bulldog tournament, getting an upset win against the champion or similar stuff. Also, I would often prioritize players that has not played a challenge game or candidate game before or have not played one in quite some time.

Avatar of captaintugwash

Perhaps a limit of one challenge per six months would be beneficial to ensure noone dominates the right to challenge.

Avatar of Martin0
captaintugwash wrote:

Perhaps a limit of one challenge per six months would be beneficial to ensure noone dominates the right to challenge.

Maybe, but with the candidate and challenge game being played simultaneously it is at most possible to be in every second challenge game and the player would need to qualify for the candidate game by rating each time after loosing to the champion.

I'm not sure if that is necessarily a bad thing, but we could use a limit of championship cycles instead of months where a previous challenger/defender can not play in a candidate game.

Avatar of captaintugwash

Every other game is probably an acceptable level of dominance. So long as the same person isn't relentlessly challenging the champion, all is well.

Avatar of vickalan

Not to throw a wrench in things, but how about a 4-way tournament to decide the next competitor against Martin0? For example Tug vs. Waredude, and FlyEaglesFly vs. HorusTheThird. I believe none of these players have challenged Martin0 yet, and only one (captaintug) is in the current Superdog tournament.

This will give Martin0 a deserved rest, before the next challenge game against him (while the other best players battle it out).

Avatar of Martin0

I think we at least should let @captaintugwash and @HorribleTomato play for the next chance to challenge me. Their sort of promised chance at this point. If we want a 4-way tournament I think it should wait until the next championship cycle (after the winner of captaintugwash or HorribleTomato challenges me).

 

I'm being given a rest now either way, but I was thinking that we wanted a constant flow of challengers. A 4-way tournament would slow things down a bit, but give more players a chance. Not sure what is better or worse. I'm certainly not against the idea.

Avatar of thegreatauk

The candidates sounds like a good idea. I think maybe it should be held every month between the top four rated players. Also I think they should have played a few games say 10 before competing(and maybe three before each candidates so they can't "sit" on their rating). What do you think?

Avatar of Martin0

It is not too uncommon for games to last more than a month (average time/game is 23 days), so we can't really have a 2 round tournament every month and expect each tournament to be finished before starting the next one. 10 games are also a bit too high of a requirement right now. Only 5 players have played more than 10 games. If we are afraid of players sitting on their ratings, we could compare top ratings in a time period instead.

Avatar of thegreatauk

Good point but in general every few months then.

Avatar of Martin0

I think it should just be based on when the previous is decided. Like a few days or a week after the candidates is over, then a new candidates can start (assuming we want to start the next candidates tournament in parallell with the challenge game).

Avatar of Fly-Eagles-Fly

Just to make things clear: Is the idea to have a simultaneous candidate game and challenge game going? So: We could have a candidate game now between HorribleTomato and CaptainTugwash, then the winner challenges Martin0, and I play HorusTheThird. I'm not sure if this is what was already said... Anyway, from here on out, we could have the two highest ranked players who have not just lost a candidate or championship challenge game play each other in the candidate game. I also suggest at least a week in between challenge games. Although, I guess the current champion could decide how long they have to wait. Also, if whoever is the champion (whether it remains Martin0 or not), keeps winning, how long does it take before they have to be beaten multiple times to be dethroned? Or is it always a single challenge game that can take them down?

Also, we need to confirm what defines a bulldog game, and who gets to decide the pieces for the games. I think the general view is that a bulldog game uses an 8x10 board, with an unusual piece between the knights and rooks, and the knights can be exchanged for Crippled Amazons, and bulldogs can be used on the a file and j file. Is that definition missing anything?

Wow that was long.

Avatar of Martin0

There are 2 basic suggestions:

1: one candidate game and 1 challenger game going on simultaneously

2: The candidates are a 4-player tournament where the winner can play the champion.

 

vickalan only gave an example of the current top 4 rated players to play a 4-player tournament. There is no planned game with Fly-Eagles-Fly and HorusTheThird right now. Personally I think that would not be nice to HorribleTomato right now if we suddenly choose to do a 4-way tournament without him, since he was basically already promised a chance, but for the next candidates, then sure we can do a 4-way tournament.

 

A single challenge game should always be enough to break the champion down. Otherwise we would need several games between 2 players to decide the champion, but I just don't think we have time for that.

 

I also think the list of game eligible for championship games should be revised, but right now the champion gets to decide between a few options.

Avatar of Waredude

I would like to volunteer. Anything I can do to help would be great. I just feel like this is kinda the only work I can get here since I can't moderate ya know. Plus it sounds kinda fun.

Avatar of Fly-Eagles-Fly

Sorry, I had read Vickalan's post wrong. I mean that while the winner of the tomato/tugwash game challenges Martin0, Waredude and I should play a candidate game. Then while the winner of that game challenges Martin0, the two remaining highest rated players (who have not lost the last candidate or challenge game) play in a candidate game.

Avatar of Fly-Eagles-Fly

Also, where does the Bulldog Tournament fit into all of this? Does it not really matter, or does the winner have the right to challenge Martin0? Assuming Martin0 himself does not win the tournament.

Avatar of Martin0

When the winner of tomato/tugwash game is challenging me, then we need to have decided if we want a 4-way tournament or just a new candidate game. We also need to have decided what is necessary to qualify for the candidates. I'm not convinced that only going by rating is the best thing.

 

Either way, I don't think we have any way to say that it should be a Fly-Eagles-Fly - Waredude game. When the game between tomato - tugwash is finished, the ratings will look different.

Avatar of Waredude

I like the sound of a four way tourney! I think to qualify you must have won a certain percentage of games played. Say, 60-70 % or so, that way you can tell whether they have just been lucky or actually have the skills needed to take down the champ.