1...e6 for 1.e4 and 1.d4

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Musikamole

International Grandmaster Nigel Davies has a DVD out titled 1...e6: A Solid Repertoire against 1.d4 and 1.e4. What do you think about 1...e6 for both 1.e4 and 1.d4?

The DVD has 5 hours of instruction and I'm considering purchasing it, as I like to play the French. I'm mostly concerned with what kind of trouble I would get into playing 1...e6 after 1.d4. I've never tried that before. 

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5. The French Defense. No problems there.

1.d4 e6 2.e4 d5. A change in move order for the French. Still no problems.

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3(Nd2) Be7. What do you think about Be7 following Nc3 or Nd2? Nigel believes that the move Be7 avoids the theory of both Nc3 and Nd2.

1.d4 e6 2.c4 Bb4+. Bb4+ is a rare move. Do you see any problems for Black?

1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.c4 Bb4+. Bogo-Indian. Do you see any problems for Black?


mnag

1 ... e6, is okay, its just another opening. What would you do if ...1. d4 e6 2. Nf3 Nf6  3. Bf4 is played?

eaglex

i think 1. ...e6 is fine if you transpose to either nizmo indian of course or queens gambit declinced.

either 1.d4 e6 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nf3 d5

or 1.d4 e6 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nc3 Bb4

and obviously black should be OK in most French defense lines 

eaglex

mnag black can play 3... c5,b6, or d5 there

Loomis

I have played 1. ... e6 against everything quite a bit. Mostly because I played the French and in bullet games wanted the same first move no matter what. But in non-bullet games, I see no reason not to pick something else against 1. d4. Are there really many similarities between 1. e4 e6 and 1. d4 e6?

I always played a Benoni, e.g. 1. d4 e6 2. c4 c5 3. d5 exd5 4. cxd5 d6. This is fine for black. In fact, I found in bullet games you can get a big time advantage by playing Ne7-g6, Be7-f6, 0-0, and Re8 -- black locks down on the e5 square almost no matter what white is doing.

Musikamole
paulgottlieb wrote:

Looks perfectly reasonable to me. I believe the great Paul Keres would occasionally play a system based around 1.d4 e6 2. c4 Bb4+. If 3.Nc3 Nf6 you're in the Nimzo-Indian, which is fine. After 3.Bd2 you're in a sort of Bogo-Indian position. This may not be the Ultimate Weapon for Black, but it looks reasonable.

And what kind of guitar is that you're holding, and what style do you play?


It's a 1975 Gibson Les Paul Deluxe (Sunburst). My father purchased it for me brand new and had it shipped from my home state of Pennsylvannia all the way to California - where I used it to play in my high school jazz band. It's an awesome sounding guitar.

My favorite style to play on the guitar is Jazz. To be more specific, I mostly like to play in the style of Joe Pass. I can't afford the jazz guitar that Joe Pass played right now. My college roommate had one, a Gibson ES-175 f-hole body. I should really sell some stuff on Ebay to raise the cash for that guitar!

My absolute favorite solo jazz guitar album: Joe Pass - Virtuoso. His Gibson ES-175 was miked - and did not go through an amp. It had that dry - woody tone which I fell in love with.

I do own a cheaper guitar much like the Gibson ES-175, but the tone is only half as rich.

TupeloProblem

I like it as a system, but I think I'd give the DVD a pass.

1.e4 e6 french.

1.d4 e6 2.e4 e5 french.

1.d4 e6 2.c4 Nf6 preparing Nimzo/QID/Benoni/QGD

Sounds to me like the Be7 and Bb4+ crap is just a lame attempt to give theory the runaround, thus inviting suboptimal variations.

TupeloProblem

Plus, once in a blue moon, you'll get some clod on autopilot who attempts to trot out a Trompowsky on you.  That's always fun.

Musikamole
rich wrote:

I think 1.e6 is a decent response to anything white does. I know someone who teaches their students to play 1.e6 no matter what white throws at them!


A chess teacher AND an International Grandmaster recommend this system. You sold me. I'm going to purchase the DVD. Smile

As a beginning player who encounters 700-800 rated blitz players on Live Chess - 1...e6 stops 2.Bc4 followed by 3.Qf3 - the down and dirty quick checkmate by targeting f7.

I don't fear those responses anymore, as I know how to counter them. I'm just looking for more intelligent responses from a 700-800 blitz player. They normally stop and think for about 10 seconds when I play 1...e6 to their 1.e4. I can actually hear the wheels turning. Laughing It's as if they think I am setting a trap. 

Musikamole
TupeloProblem wrote:

I like it as a system, but I think I'd give the DVD a pass.

1.e4 e6 french.

1.d4 e6 2.e4 e5 french.

1.d4 e6 2.c4 Nf6 preparing Nimzo/QID/Benoni/QGD

Sounds to me like the Be7 and Bb4+ crap is just a lame attempt to give theory the runaround, thus inviting suboptimal variations.


Good points. The video author does admit to the runaround regarding theory, but so do other GMs in other opening books.

Example: In Chess Openings for White, Explained - two GMs and one IM recommend 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 (Closed Sicilian) to avoid hundreds of opening lines of the Open Sicilian. They believe that the Grand Prix Attack is a solid system. Chess.com video instructor GM Roman Dzindzichashvili is one of the authors.

I never thought it possible to play 1...e6 after 1.d4. It really has me thinking. I do play 1.d4 as White, and I am most familiar with both the Queen's Gambit Declined and the Nimzo-Indian Defense. Now, I could play the QGD as Black, but I'm especially interested in 1...e6 to perhaps upset the apple cart of the 1.d4 player in blitz, not long play.

Musikamole
mnag wrote:

1 ... e6, is okay, its just another opening. What would you do if ...1. d4 e6 2. Nf3 Nf6  3. Bf4 is played?


1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Bf4 would be ECO D02 Queen's bishop game or also known as the Queen's pawn: London System. Clicking on game explorer, 3.Bf4 is the 5th most popular response. The most popular response after 2.Nf3 Nf6 is 3.c4 - which makes sense as a 1.d4 player.

For 3.Bf4 the most popular response is 3...d5. I'd play d5 in a heart beat, as it's the French! Smile

Musikamole
TupeloProblem wrote:

Plus, once in a blue moon, you'll get some clod on autopilot who attempts to trot out a Trompowsky on you.  That's always fun.


You can't be serious! Laughing

1.d4 e6 (The topic of this thread) 2.Bg5?? 3.Qxg5!! I like Black's chances. Smile

VLaurenT

N.Davies is a good guide. You could do worse than follow him... Smile

msoewulff

its definately solid.

Musikamole
hicetnunc wrote:

N.Davies is a good guide. You could do worse than follow him...


Thanks for the extra vote of confidence in Nigel Davies as a teacher. Like I said before, it never occured to me that 1...e6 could even be played after 1.d4. As a 1.d4 player, I expect to mostly see 1...c6 (Slav) 1...Nf6 (Nimzo) or 1...d4 (QGD).

If I ever saw 1...e6 for the first time, it would be a big surprise and cause me to pause and think as the clock ticks. Smile

MrNimzoIndian

As a primarily 1d4 player I'm happy to go ino the French after 1d4 e6 2e4 d5....reason is because I gave up 1e4 mostly because of the mighty Sicilian and am happy to fact what I believe is not the best response to 1e4,  viz e6

Having said that,from black's perspective I do like 1....e6 because white might play the inferior advance variation.....which is popular and I believe Marshall's French gambit may be worth an outing against Nc3, viz 1e4 e6 2d4 d5 3Nc3 c5 !?! .....which gives interesting chess

wango

I think it makes a lot of sense.  The French is solid and many 1e4 players don't like facing it.  Against 1d4 you end up throwing e6 in as part of all of the QGD lines and the Semi Slav.  I don't know what he reccommends, but it seems very smart to approach a repertoire this way.

There have been books about 1...c6 for black against everything white tries, taking you to a Slav, Caro Kan set up.  Looks like it is a good way to save some time.

Golbat

The problem I have with playing 1. d4 e6 2. c4 Bb4+ (intending 3. Bd2 Bxd2+) is that White has not committed to Nf3, so he can play Nc3 and e4 before Black has time to fianchetto his queen's bishop. In this regard, black usually plays ...d5 and White has a slightly better game.

But that shouldn't stop you from playing this system. For example, the "drawing master" Ulf Andersson has this type of position frequently as black.

Musikamole
Estragon wrote:

As one who played the French in tournaments for nearly 20 years, and the Nimzo for longer than that and still do, I'm gratified to know that after 1 d4 e6 2 e4 d5 the French is "no problem."  My experience wasn't always so clear . . .

But after 2 c4 Bb4+ White really has no better than to go into the Nimzo with 3 Nc3 Nf6, but again the "no problem" does rather simplify some 70 years of opening theory, don't you think?


Good point. I seriously doubt that one opening/universal system can "simplify"  70 years of opening theory.

I've been told repeatedly as a beginning chess player, which I am, to not spend too much time memorizing opening lines (opening theory). Rather, I should focus on more fundamental tasks like developing rapidly, placing my pawns and pieces on good starting squares. Thus, 1.e4/d4 ...e6 places my focus where I believe it should be right now, opening principles and tactics, tactics and more tactics. Smile Also, check mating puzzles are of enormous benefit to me, as I started a year ago with only knowing a few mating patterns.

By stating "no problem", I certainly didn't mean that the French Defense was an easy opening to learn. 

I simple meant that the move order 1.d4 e6 2.e4 d5 presents "no problem" in that anyone who wishes to play the French Defense still has the possibilty to do so after 1.d4, and if White does not play 2.e4, Black can still continue with solid development. I find this amazing. Smile

I never said "no problem" to 3.Nc3 Nf6. In my OP, I asked the question, "Do you see any problems for Black?"

Great comments on this thread. Thank you! Smile

ericmittens

I've often considered using this move order, but for me it would basically mean replacing my beloved king's indian with something like the stonewall dutch. This is something I am (as of yet) not willing to do.