At what rating does it become unreliable to play the Vienna (specifically 3.f4)

At what rating should I settle down and learn a classical opening like the Italian?

the Vienna is a sound opening, and f4 against nf6 works well. So the rating where I would suggest learning something else is around 1600-1800. But it’s definitely still playable from onwards.

3.f4? 1400 or earlier. I’d recommend 3. Bc4, followed by d3, 0-0, and then f4, the Berlin-Vienna Hybrid Bishops Opening is much more solid while retaining all of the aggression.

Well I will guess that it should be playable above Magnus' level. So just keep on going!

when people start to actually know theory its trash/drawish

main line btw

its equal in the eyes of humans but the computer says -0.5

then you have Qf3, which leads to a forced endgame which is equal

I actually feel like white still has practical chances in the endgame. White has the d and f files to operate on and it’s not that bad

as someone who literally used to play that

no?

first off i never got to go 0-0 if they knew what they were doing with Bc5

then theres all the weaknesses in the setup

Bc5!

B/Ng4!

the g4-d1 pins are bad, the f2 tactics are worse

all of this from my experience

switched from it when i was idk just below 1000 (im still close to there, 1100) but the opening is not horrible for me anymore

please

show me this solidity

i wont switch back, but still; show it how its meant to be played

btw i was scoring more with black that white, way more 

Nxe4 is the only way to test the Bc4 vienna, Qh5 (main line) is sharp but gives black equality

Krykun 1.e4 says otherwise fr fr fr

never really, its a very tricky opening with plenty of sidelines by white and equalizes at worst. If you become a super GM you wont play it as often simply because squeezing whites opening advantage is crucial at that level, to keep your win ratio up. But you by no means need to abandon it.

You can switch whenever you want or never. 3. f4 can work up until 2000, but even then, you can switch to 3. g3 or Bc4. If you feel uncomfortable with the Vienna, you can switch to the Italian or the Ruy or the Scotch whenever.

I would learn these as soon as possible. I have played the Italian since high school and have always regretted not becoming adept at the Ruy, which is a much superior opening in my opinion. Learn the best stuff earliest.

@Sea_Turtle approves of this message

@SeaTurtIe

what 💀

The Sea_Turtle from #5

italian is passive and boring

if you even try to get a bit agressive black refutes your attack

c3-d4 is trash

blacks just up an easy clean pawn and white has nothing

also forgot about the evans

its not bad it just gives equality

it works all the way to the masters if you don't mind a lot of draws. It actually WINS a few percent more in the masters database at around 19,000 games with 50% wins to 44% losses, making it a potent weapon at every level. The vienna gambit is in the "elite top 10" of gotham and carlsen who don't have as much respect for it's king's gambit cousin.

others have praised it for being very trappy and dangerous.

as someone who does worse in lines with early Nc3s, It's not for me I imagine

ive been meaning to ask this for a while

how can you categorise openings into "Nf3 Bc4" and "early Nc3" and have it make any difference at all, or even find general similarities within the sets

then be able to conclude "i do worse in early Nc3 lines" why? what about them make you not your style, plus how are they all even similar

how are these similar, and in what way does the early Nc3 distinguish that in some of them white will play Nf3 Bc4 anyway

style is one thing, this... idk how you can think this