Caro-Cann: Advance variation with 3...c5

3..c5 is very playable. 4.dxc5  Nc6 5 Bb5 e6.

Transpositions wrote:

" I don't know at what stage, in your development as a chessplayer, you are.  But, your question in your post is a very good one, as you can see by all of the heated activity it has generated.  You are on the right track. "

I'm on the stage when you firstly join a chess club, you're 13, you just started play in tournaments, and your official  National rating is 1000 even if you play as a 1600-1800 player.

I've started training last year and as most of the times that I play in a tournament everyone else is much higher than me, I'm happy with a draw with black.

For example on Monday I'm leaving for a tournament where the first 20 or 30 people will have rating over 2200- 2300. I'm sure that my score will be something like 3/9-3,5/9 but at least I will try. The good thing about this is that I will gain Elo points very fastly.(Edit:just for the record I scored 5,5/9 drawing a won endgame at the last round)

As you said I'm trying to draw with Caro-Cann because:

• if 1...e5 white chooses the opening.
• if 1...e6 usually white gets very active piece play and has stron attack
• if 1...d6 I really don't aperciate the Pirc and the Modern defences
• if 1...Nf6 it's commonly know that white can get AT LEAST a slight advandage if he plays the opening well
• if 1...c5 Here I would like to say some things. I truly understand that the Sicilian is the most respectful and popular opening, BUT I think that if Black wants to play the Sicilian on a serious game has to be studying the opening for years. the theory is really much as most of the people prefer to play anti-sicilians, and every slight mistake can make you have a cramped position. This the mistake many low rated players like me do. They play thw Sicilian, just because they've heard of the opening.

For these reasons, if I really want a win I will play e5 or stick my Caro-Cann and hope for the best.

normajeanyates wrote:

3..c5 is very playable. 4.dxc5  Nc6 5 Bb5 e6.

So If you mean 4...Nc6, yes it is the best move I think. (It is also MCO-14's only listed move after 4.dc. )

play Sicilian if you want to be high rated study it and know it

@chaos_

As I said earlier Sicilian has MUCH theory, and black must be a very good player to get advantage of the complex situation which appears in some very sharp lines. I would say that anyone with IntRtg 1700< shouldn't play it in a serious game.

transpositions, at the time you mention first knowing Henley, I also knew him in New York. He tried hustling in the Flea House by saying, with an accent, "I'm just a country boy from Texas." His intent seemed to be somewhat humorous, while seeking action. I didn't play him, although I did play (5 minute) another Texan, who was a senior master. I scored 80%. Ron was at the World Trade Center when I was there for the Kasparov-Anand match in 1995. When I played Karpov in the USATE 1998, I lost in 35 moves. My second board, Mitchell Goldberg (FIDE 2395), drew Henley. For those who want to play the Caro-Kann to draw, I have no complaints. However, sometimes you will have to fight to win in order to at least draw.

I have the book Play the Caro-Kann.  Houska does a good job of explaining the c5 variation, but the positions that arise are not to my taste.  There is sort of a cloud hanging over the c5 variation, because all the kinks have not been worked out.  So a fresh novelty could totally discredit the variation or the line could be played to the point where it is the latest fashion and the cutting edge on theory.  There is a risk and reward with c5.  Bf5 is the safer route, although I think that White can obtain a slight edge with safe play and have chances for a larger one with dynamic play.  Black may have eventual equality, but it is hard to say.  If you want a drawish opening, you should try the French Defense Rubinstein with an early fianchetto.  If you would like to continue with the Caro-Kann, that is great, but the Advance can really give you a headache.

transpositions wrote:

TonightOnly wrote:

 Slightly more useful stuff than what you wrote would have been... this or that.

Well, yes, I could have done a bunch of research and helped him more, but that doesn't make what I said useless. You did imply this by saying that KedDuff's was the only useful post. There is no need for you to judge which posts are the good ones or to try to show me how mine could have been better. Just put in your two cents, and let others do the same.

I spent half a minute turning out a few observations, and hopefully he will take something from it. I think I came up with a couple of good points. I will leave the more in depth stuff for the Dragon and KID threads. By the way, the link to Silman's review doesn't work.

Here is a novelty I have come up with against the Caro-Kann c5 line.  Hope it is helpful

transpositions wrote:

GreenLaser wrote:

I not only studied Karpov, I played him.

 GM Ron Henley was Karpov's second for his match with Kasparov in New York.  I have known Ron since he was 19.  He lived in my home in Orlando, Fl.  I know a little bit about Mr. Karpov too. 

Yeah? Well, I was Karpov's cabana boy, so hah!

GreenLaser,

I learned alot about chess from Ron.  One of these days

That accent that he was doing was supposed to be Johnny Cash. He loved doing his impression of Johnny Cash.  And, yes another of his buddies told me about his hustling exploits at the Marshall, the Flea House and lots of other places in New York in the early 80's when he wasn't so well known.  He did the professional circuit in Europe and elsewhere and earned the IM and GM norms.  There are lots of his published games against the top GM's during that decade. 

By 1998, Ron had found Wall Street and did quite well in the market as a broker.  Like all of us he had to earn a living.  Chess had become a sideline in his life. 

Concerning drawing with the Caro-Kann, I love to see the look on my opponent's face, especially if he is higher rated, when he confidently plays 1.e4.  Then he sees me push that pawn to c6 and turn to stone.  They hate that because they can sense, "this guy knows how to play this opening and I'm in for a long, excruciatingly boring draw."   The Caro-Kann has surprise value in a tournament because chessplayers, who go to the trouble and expense, go there to win.  In a 7 or 9 round Swiss, it is the 4th round.  I have a 3-0 score and my higher rated opponent also has a 3-0 score, the last thing they expect is the Caro-Kann.  Sometimes it backfires and you get paired up in the next round anyway.  Ah, tournament life I love it.   

GreenLaser,

One of these days I will have to tell you a very funny story about Ron.

It is very complimentary of him and proved that he is a chessplayer through and through.

KillaBeez, nice line. 4...Nc6 is normal.

transpositions, Henley was in New York quite a bit earlier than the early '80s. The Flea House was at its end by the early '80s and the Game Room was a newer place for a time. I heard about Ron's business success. Regarding the Caro as a surprise, against a famous master I played 1...c5. The IM sitting next to him, moved my pawn back to c6, where it "belonged." I already had a GM score against the master (who had reached 2400+), usually playing black and using c6. So, c5 was the surprise and I added a couple of wins to our score with c5. Surprise requires context. Where are the towels, TonightOnly?

greenlaser,  Are you challenging me to a game in the Caro-Kann?  I play on ICC.   If you are bring it.  But, it will have to be after the labor Day weekend.  I am playing in couple of tournaments between now and then.   Classical time control 40/2 30/1 no increments per move, etc. thereafter until the game is concluded.            

transpositions, I was discussing the Caro-Kann, not seeking to play online. I learned playing on ICC, 5 minutes only, that I don't like it. My connection was lost often. The time shown that the players had left was wrong, due to lags. I am also playing that weekend in Albany, NY.

TonightOnly,

I wasn't dissing you.  Your answer was fine but it didn't tell him that the Caro-Kann is a drawing weapon for Black.  That was the important part.  Put yourself in his place.  If you were playing this opening and you didn't know about how drawish it is wouldn't you want to know that fact first.  And, responding with well he didn't ask that is a cop out. I know that my post offended you because you answered sarcastically.  After your response I tried to explain it to you again and gave you back some. 

It seems to me that what Kosmeg was really asking is, What will give me better winning chances as Black in the Caro-Kann 3...Bf5 or 3...c5?  If you have read my posts you know that the correct answer is go for solid, boring and drawish.  3...Bf5 has lots of theory behind it and thousands of games which makes it an excellent candidate for solid, boring and drawish.  This is not the case with 3...c5.

The statistics bear out that the Caro-Kann is very drawish.  If he didn't already, Kosmeg needed to know that the Caro-Kann is a drawing weapon for Black.   The point of all of this is that we have to answer questions completely and succinctly with a heavy emphasis on the bottom line(winning, losing, drawing or unclear).  Kosmeg is 13, but he asked one hell of a question.  If you don't think so take a look at this forum.  I respect him and his question and that is why I gave him the bottom line.   

transpositions wrote:

Your answer was fine but it didn't tell him that the Caro-Kann is a drawing weapon for Black.  That was the important part.  And, responding with 'well, he didn't ask that' is a cop out. I know that my post offended you because you answered sarcastically.  

That is a silly assumption. Your post didn't offend me, I just found it pretentious. It is not your job to police everyone's comments and point out if they 'answered the correct question.' If you think something important was left out, just add it, and keep your judgements to yourself.

you can stop using the carn cann and use the sicilian instead

ive never read a chess book in my life. But thanks for the shout out transposition. i try to reason out chess openings by myself, i also try to invent my own.

best drawish opening for me is the philidor, tho white does like to hang that center pawn after i drive off defenders.