Flying Ninja Attack - Chess Forums

jhan17

Jul 10, 2011

0

#1

Hello chess.com community,

A friend (jrcolonial98) and I recently investigated an interesting position arising from the King's Indian which we are calling the Flying Ninja Attack. It involves a knight sacrifice which may not be completely sound, but in practical play seems to present a formidable defensive task to white. Here are the moves:

Mm40

Jul 10, 2011

0

#2

Are white's moves after 13...f5 book? I know that black's main 13th move in this line in the 11...a5 line is 13...b6 (I know because my phone always plays this against me, so I looked it up), where white generally continues 14. a4.

That's why 14. Nd2 seems odd; I would probably just continue with 14. c5. I'm probably missing a tactic, or something silly like that. I generally do that against the KID :)

P.S. Good name; if I were you, I'd hurry to play this OTB, just so I could present theory in the Flying Ninja Attack to my bewildered opponent in a post-mortem.

jrcolonial98

Jul 10, 2011

0

#3

I'm 13 and I think he's 12.

(PS I am the co-creator)

jhan17

Jul 10, 2011

0

#4

12 Ba3 is inaccurate, but has been played a fair amount of times.

14 Nd2 is an attempt to avoid a potentially uncomfortable pin after ...fxe4 and ...Bg4. You're probably right that it's not the best move.

Efim_Bogoljubov

Jul 10, 2011

0

#5

Ba3 is not a correct move, a4 is better and have you analysed deep that position? cause a continuation can be with Bh3 for white.

With a lose position for black. ur variation is wrong cause the sacrifice is good and useful when takes the black in a winning position or in a better position than white. But now the knight sacrifice is for nothing cause with Bh3 white destroys the black's plan.

sandstreampop

Jul 10, 2011

0

#6

Nice attack. Too bad that you missed white's pawn on a2. This is how white forces a win in the game:

Always look out for possible tactical lines that you may have overlooked. But nice attack otherwise! Make sure to check out the best first move in the whole universe. http://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/1-a4-best-chess-opening2

Good luck, champ!

jhan17

Jul 10, 2011

0

#7

sandstreampop wrote:

Nice attack. Too bad that you missed white's pawn on a2. This is how white forces a win in the game:

Always look out for possible tactical lines that you may have overlooked. But nice attack otherwise! Make sure to check out the best first move in the whole universe. http://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/1-a4-best-chess-opening2

Good luck, champ!

Too bad ur dumb

jhan17

Jul 10, 2011

0

#8

Efim_Bogoljubov wrote:

Ba3 is not a correct move, a4 is better and have you analysed deep that position? cause a continuation can be with Bh3 for white.

With a lose position for black. ur variation is wrong cause the sacrifice is good and useful when takes the black in a winning position or in a better position than white. But now the knight sacrifice is for nothing cause with Bh3 white destroys the black's plan.

Black does not get a losing position in your diagram. in fact, he gets a winning position. Your move 18. exf5 loses to gxh3 threatening Qg5, as a previous poster already pointed out.

EDIT: The previous poster's account was closed by chess.com for "cheating", and his comment was deleted.

Efim_Bogoljubov

Jul 10, 2011

0

#9

birdsopening wrote:

Efim_Bogoljubov wrote:

Ba3 is not a correct move, a4 is better and have you analysed deep that position? cause a continuation can be with Bh3 for white.

With a lose position for black. ur variation is wrong cause the sacrifice is good and useful when takes the black in a winning position or in a better position than white. But now the knight sacrifice is for nothing cause with Bh3 white destroys the black's plan.

You are absolutely correct that Ba3 is bad. I previously said that this sacrifice was discovered from a blitz game. You can't expect people to make perfect moves in a blitz game. I also previously stated that Ba3 has nothing to do with the purpose of this topic. The purpose of this topic is the knight sac, which can be possible even if white does not play Ba3. Also, black does not get a losing position in your diagram, in fact, he gets a winning position (or at least a very good one). Your move 18. exf5 loses to gxh3 threatening Qg5, as a previous poster already pointed out. Fritz 10 evaluates the position after exf5 as -2.59 in black's favor. Have you analyzed deep the position? Because your refutation is clearly refuted by 18...gxh3 in response to 18 exf5.

Well my trainer (IM) says different, but if you'r sure of that.

I'll show you what I mean.

That's what a player like me 1770 rating is goin' to play in this position. Black position is not as good as you wanted, and also the black queen's mobility is limitated, I hate the variation like this, with a lot of check but no real possibilty of win. In the case of change all pieces, and if I was the white i changed the queen, endgame with two pieces against a rook? not easy but not impossible.

nixthename

Jul 11, 2011

0

#10

It looks nice, and might lead to a nice attack after bad play with white. However, at a depth of 20 moves stockfish rates it as +2 for white.

jhan17

Jul 11, 2011

0

#11

Efim_Bogoljubov wrote:

birdsopening wrote:

Efim_Bogoljubov wrote:

Ba3 is not a correct move, a4 is better and have you analysed deep that position? cause a continuation can be with Bh3 for white.

With a lose position for black. ur variation is wrong cause the sacrifice is good and useful when takes the black in a winning position or in a better position than white. But now the knight sacrifice is for nothing cause with Bh3 white destroys the black's plan.

You are absolutely correct that Ba3 is bad. I previously said that this sacrifice was discovered from a blitz game. You can't expect people to make perfect moves in a blitz game. I also previously stated that Ba3 has nothing to do with the purpose of this topic. The purpose of this topic is the knight sac, which can be possible even if white does not play Ba3. Also, black does not get a losing position in your diagram, in fact, he gets a winning position (or at least a very good one). Your move 18. exf5 loses to gxh3 threatening Qg5, as a previous poster already pointed out. Fritz 10 evaluates the position after exf5 as -2.59 in black's favor. Have you analyzed deep the position? Because your refutation is clearly refuted by 18...gxh3 in response to 18 exf5.

Well my trainer (IM) says different, but if you'r sure of that.

I'll show you what I mean.

That's what a player like me 1770 rating is goin' to play in this position. Black position is not as good as you wanted, and also the black queen's mobility is limitated, I hate the variation like this, with a lot of check but no real possibilty of win. In the case of change all pieces, and if I was the white i changed the queen, endgame with two pieces against a rook? not easy but not impossible.

In your diagram black does not play 21...Re8+, but rather 21...Bg4 winning the queen. The fxg6 variation fails instantly to this. Also, the position after 19...Bxf5 is clearly winning for black after 20. Kh1 c5 21. dxc6 bxc6.

jhan17

Jul 11, 2011

0

#12

yugiohdark13 wrote:

It looks nice, and might lead to a nice attack after bad play with white. However, at a depth of 20 moves stockfish rates it as +2 for white.

And what is the refutation that Stockfish offers?

Efim_Bogoljubov

Jul 11, 2011

0

#13

birdsopening wrote:

Efim_Bogoljubov wrote:

birdsopening wrote:

Efim_Bogoljubov wrote:

Ba3 is not a correct move, a4 is better and have you analysed deep that position? cause a continuation can be with Bh3 for white.

With a lose position for black. ur variation is wrong cause the sacrifice is good and useful when takes the black in a winning position or in a better position than white. But now the knight sacrifice is for nothing cause with Bh3 white destroys the black's plan.

You are absolutely correct that Ba3 is bad. I previously said that this sacrifice was discovered from a blitz game. You can't expect people to make perfect moves in a blitz game. I also previously stated that Ba3 has nothing to do with the purpose of this topic. The purpose of this topic is the knight sac, which can be possible even if white does not play Ba3. Also, black does not get a losing position in your diagram, in fact, he gets a winning position (or at least a very good one). Your move 18. exf5 loses to gxh3 threatening Qg5, as a previous poster already pointed out. Fritz 10 evaluates the position after exf5 as -2.59 in black's favor. Have you analyzed deep the position? Because your refutation is clearly refuted by 18...gxh3 in response to 18 exf5.

Well my trainer (IM) says different, but if you'r sure of that.

I'll show you what I mean.

That's what a player like me 1770 rating is goin' to play in this position. Black position is not as good as you wanted, and also the black queen's mobility is limitated, I hate the variation like this, with a lot of check but no real possibilty of win. In the case of change all pieces, and if I was the white i changed the queen, endgame with two pieces against a rook? not easy but not impossible.

Look, in your diagram black isn't going to play 21...Re8+. He is going to play 21...Bg4 winning the queen. So the fxg6 variation fails instantly. Also, the position after 19...Bxf5 is evaluated as approximately -3.00 in black's favor by the chess engine Fritz 10. After 20. Kh1 c5 21. dxc6 bxc6 it is clear that black has an advantage.

That's because u analyse only black moves not white's one. But elo rating don't lie I suppose. Good look for your variation.

nixthename

Jul 11, 2011

0

#14

birdsopening wrote:

yugiohdark13 wrote:

It looks nice, and might lead to a nice attack after bad play with white. However, at a depth of 20 moves stockfish rates it as +2 for white.

And what is the refutation that Stockfish offers?

1. Rc1 g4

2. c5 Qh4

3. Rc2 f3

4.Nc4

And it rates it as about equal. Therefore, my verdict (take it with a grain of salt) is that it wouldnt be sound vs a master, but it has good compensation.

jhan17

Jul 12, 2011

0

#15

[COMMENT DELETED]

jrcolonial98

Jul 13, 2011

0

#16

So we can reach the conclusion that it is good in a blitz game.

jhan17

Jul 13, 2011

0

#17

jrcolonial98 wrote:

So we can reach the conclusion that it is good in a blitz game.

It might still be viable for longer time controls, I think it would take very accurate play by white to neutralize black's attack.

leo6

Jul 22, 2012

0

#18

cool opening!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!