French defense - pros and cons

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Avatar of Ethan_Brollier
swarminglocusts wrote:
TerryMills wrote:
DavidFarsen wrote:

... Uhlmann and Short used it a sharp counter-attacking.

It may well be true that the top 10 players rarely use it in major tournaments today: but I am not in that league. Uhlmann's book "Winning with the French" is instructive.

I’m looking into the French Incase d4 e6 wanting to play f5 and get a good Dutch position. But really why follow the pros anymore? They play the same drawish e4 e5 games ruy Lopez instead of playing for a win. Derek Kelley or Gotham chess on YouTube is much more insightful, not to mention other YouTubers creating similar content. 
I think Carlson is right saying less time and more games a day will show a more enjoyable chess tournament and less time to memorize 20-:30 move draws for one game a day. It’s a shame he doesn’t play different openings in tournaments as he does online such as the Dutch. Fischer brought change to chess in many ways including time increments and Fischer Random Chess. Carlson is has the ability and influence to change the game as did Fischer who played to win not draw. I will recall that Carlson did use the polish opening in a rapid tournament, didn’t win and still won the tournament. I think he is at the point of just having fun and doing what is more fun or enjoyable and still doing amazingly well.

I disagree with multiple points here. We’re actually seeing less Ruy Lopez and more Italian recently due to the dominance of the Berlin and Marshall Attack. Pros still play incredibly exciting and aggressive chess, and while there are incredibly drawish GMs and GM games, many are not and play for the win. Gotham is an absolutely HORRIFIC content creator in regards to opening theory, and he says as much. His target audience is the U1200 crowd, which makes up roughly 90% of chess.com players, but for players like you his recommendations would likely actively harm your chess. Blitz and rapid tournaments are certainly refreshing and interesting, but I only think this is the case as long as they exist alongside classical tournaments rather than replacing them entirely.

Avatar of swarminglocusts
Ethan_Brollier wrote:
swarminglocusts wrote:
TerryMills wrote:
DavidFarsen wrote:

... Uhlmann and Short used it a sharp counter-attacking.

It may well be true that the top 10 players rarely use it in major tournaments today: but I am not in that league. Uhlmann's book "Winning with the French" is instructive.

I’m looking into the French Incase d4 e6 wanting to play f5 and get a good Dutch position. But really why follow the pros anymore? They play the same drawish e4 e5 games ruy Lopez instead of playing for a win. Derek Kelley or Gotham chess on YouTube is much more insightful, not to mention other YouTubers creating similar content. 
I think Carlson is right saying less time and more games a day will show a more enjoyable chess tournament and less time to memorize 20-:30 move draws for one game a day. It’s a shame he doesn’t play different openings in tournaments as he does online such as the Dutch. Fischer brought change to chess in many ways including time increments and Fischer Random Chess. Carlson is has the ability and influence to change the game as did Fischer who played to win not draw. I will recall that Carlson did use the polish opening in a rapid tournament, didn’t win and still won the tournament. I think he is at the point of just having fun and doing what is more fun or enjoyable and still doing amazingly well.

I disagree with multiple points here. We’re actually seeing less Ruy Lopez and more Italian recently due to the dominance of the Berlin and Marshall Attack. Pros still play incredibly exciting and aggressive chess, and while there are incredibly drawish GMs and GM games, many are not and play for the win. Gotham is an absolutely HORRIFIC content creator in regards to opening theory, and he says as much. His target audience is the U1200 crowd, which makes up roughly 90% of chess.com players, but for players like you his recommendations would likely actively harm your chess. Blitz and rapid tournaments are certainly refreshing and interesting, but I only think this is the case as long as they exist alongside classical tournaments rather than replacing them entirety.

The last two world championships with the same opening over and over demonstrates my point.

Avatar of Ethan_Brollier
swarminglocusts wrote:
Ethan_Brollier wrote:
swarminglocusts wrote:
TerryMills wrote:
DavidFarsen wrote:

... Uhlmann and Short used it a sharp counter-attacking.

It may well be true that the top 10 players rarely use it in major tournaments today: but I am not in that league. Uhlmann's book "Winning with the French" is instructive.

I’m looking into the French Incase d4 e6 wanting to play f5 and get a good Dutch position. But really why follow the pros anymore? They play the same drawish e4 e5 games ruy Lopez instead of playing for a win. Derek Kelley or Gotham chess on YouTube is much more insightful, not to mention other YouTubers creating similar content. 
I think Carlson is right saying less time and more games a day will show a more enjoyable chess tournament and less time to memorize 20-:30 move draws for one game a day. It’s a shame he doesn’t play different openings in tournaments as he does online such as the Dutch. Fischer brought change to chess in many ways including time increments and Fischer Random Chess. Carlson is has the ability and influence to change the game as did Fischer who played to win not draw. I will recall that Carlson did use the polish opening in a rapid tournament, didn’t win and still won the tournament. I think he is at the point of just having fun and doing what is more fun or enjoyable and still doing amazingly well.

I disagree with multiple points here. We’re actually seeing less Ruy Lopez and more Italian recently due to the dominance of the Berlin and Marshall Attack. Pros still play incredibly exciting and aggressive chess, and while there are incredibly drawish GMs and GM games, many are not and play for the win. Gotham is an absolutely HORRIFIC content creator in regards to opening theory, and he says as much. His target audience is the U1200 crowd, which makes up roughly 90% of chess.com players, but for players like you his recommendations would likely actively harm your chess. Blitz and rapid tournaments are certainly refreshing and interesting, but I only think this is the case as long as they exist alongside classical tournaments rather than replacing them entirety.

The last two world championships with the same opening over and over demonstrates my point.

Did you watch the most recent WCC where a Tarrasch French and non-Qb6 London were both played in Classical? You don’t know what you’re talking about.

Avatar of Ilampozhil25

besides, that complaint makes zero sense

if two players of low strength played over and over vs each other, we would get mostly the same opening with one player as white and another with the same opening as black

gms have infinitely more variable repertoires

Avatar of Alchessblitz
1 The French is very sharp. 2 Stategically is very difficult to play it for both colors although the most confortable side of the French is the white side. 3 It is avery good defense to unbalance the game and play for a win. Korchnoi, Uhlmann and Short used it a sharp counter-attacking. 4 The main drawback is that it is almost always going to be a tough fight, while with e5 equality is much easier to reach.

IMO or IMAO

1 : I want to say it is rather the game of chess itself which is sharp, difficult etc. if we are not in "easy winning positions" or "easy draws positions" .

2 : Lots of variations are "at the base easy to play strategically".

It's like o-o-o vs o-o attack, KID strategy, isolated pawn position or insane position (example 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 Bc5 5. Nxf7) it is not "difficult to play strategically" but we must not make tactical errors, it is better to calculate, find strong moves etc.

So in short, in the French Defense there may be :

a : 1) e4 e6 2) d4 d5 3) Nc3 Nf6 4) e5 Nfd7 5) f4 c5 6) Nf3 Nc6 7) Be3 cxd4 8) Nxd4 Bc5 9) Qd2 o-o 10) o-o-o it's strategy o-o-o vs o-o

b : 1) e4 e6 2) d3 d5 3) Nd2 c5 4) Ngf3 Nc6 5) g3 Nf6 6) Bg2 Be7 7) o-o o-o I think it's downright a reversed color variant of the KID ( 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nf3 Bg7 4.Nc3 o-o 5.e3 d6 6.Be2 Nbd7 7.o-o e5 )

c : 1) e4 e6 2) d4 d5 3) Nd2 c5 4) exd5 exd5 5) Ngf3 Nc6 6) Bb5 Bd6 7) dxc5 Bxc5 isolated pawn position

d : 1) e4 e6 2) d4 d5 3) Nc3 Bb4 4) e5 c5 5) a3 Bxc3+ 6) bxc3 Ne7 7) Qg4 Qc7 8) Qxg7 Rg8 9) Qxh7 cxd4 10) Ne2 insane position

3 : White can also play for a draw or simply in a symmetrical position 1) e4 e6 2) d4 d5 3) exd5 exd5 it's not like a Sicilian Defense where White can find it harder "to find a symmetrical position to play for a draw". And the difficulty of playing the French exchange and a bit the same as the Petrov Defense which means White could play to win and win (otherwise all GM vs GM Petrov games would automatically be draws).

4 : 1) e4 e5 2) Nf3 Nc6 3) Bb5 or 3) Bc4 "it is almost always going to be a tough fight" even if after 1) e4 e5 it could already say equality. 

The main drawback is rather psychological because when we start to lose in a French Defense which is not "a main opening" (it is 1...c5 and 1...e5 "the mains openning" after 1.e4), we can accuse the opening of being bad and that it would be necessary to change the opening while with 1)...e5 or 1)...c5 we won't accuse these openings of being the cause of our defeat because they would be bad. 

Avatar of Badchesserrr4486999

Pros: Good counter attacking chances, FANTASTIC endgames, Very ambitious.
Cons: The french bishop, Will have to walk the king in many lines, The poisoned pawn variations.
https://www.chess.com/analysis/game/live/87240009161?tab=review&move=92

This game is a perfect example of having to walk the king.