As black you can entirely avoid this setup by white by playing Nf6 on move 2, and you get a different type of position. If Nf6 g3 then simply d5. But with Nc6 you wont get the chance to play d5 in the opening.
How to deal against Vienna Game, Paulsen line
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d5 was possible on nine move, but forgat that white could pin my f6 knight which he did not.
2.Nf6 and then completely new opening for me, have to check it what happens if Nf3 d5 etc.. Recently started to play 1..e5 against e4.. there are sooo many different positions, one should study and check them all to be all right at least in first several moves.
Yep, and that's why I avoid playing e5 against 1.e4 unless I'm feeling super sharp. There are too many transpositions and usually if you make a mistake you're almost busted
Yes exactly. But you see, that's the thing. 1.e4 e5 teaches you so much chess, just from all kinds of different lines. Sharp, tactical, double edge, positional... You will face them all and lose, but then you will become better player.
For example if you play 1..c6 or 1..d5 scandinavian.. or even french 1..e6.. you end up pretty much with same pawn structures in every game.. that is e6 d5 c6 .. there are some attacking lines, but overall opening is positional/defensive and you end up defending.. There is a reasons why 1...e5 is not called a defense you know..
I would rather take the game in my hands with black and fight for initiative right from the start with great chances for success.. while indeed great chances for losing but if i end up with solid passive structure is not losing but is not atacking.. have to rely on opponents mistakes to fail attacking me.
next game as white i said.. well lets give a first go to this opening and see what happens.. To my surpise opponent was like he was playing against it his whole life.. he knew what he was doing and very quick end up better than me.. Everybody is better than me in openings nowadays.. its the last thing i studied but.. man.. every game worst out of opening..
In the first game I think you just missed your chance to play 9...d5. After 9...Nd4 10.f4 you probably have to just grab on f4 and deal. Otherwise White's attack with f5/g4 can be hard to stop especially because it's hard to play ...d5 anymore.
In the second game you can probably play 8.f4 with the same issues as the first game.
I do like this opening setup, with ...e5, ...Nc6 and especially ...Bc5 - as the white setup does neglect the black squares in the center, and especially d4.
if your struggling against this line don't play 1...e5
White blew a win by missing 35 Qf7 in the first game.
In general, the Vienna and the Bishops Opening try to get in an early f4 and often an f5 which seals Black's pieces off from the K-side and allows White a K-side Pawn Storm. The high school team I coached often castled Q-side as White and rode those openings, already knowing the game plan, to the County Championships and 3rd in the state.
The things we feared most as White were:
A) ...Bc5, which caused problems with getting a pawn attack started, especially if we had castled kingside
B) getting a counterattack near the base of our center- pawn chain. I checked that with Stockfish 8, 20 ply, and in the case of the first game, sure enough it likes 12 d5 as the best move for Black.
I don't play 1...e5, but in a recent Caro-Kann game where White had d4 and e5 pawns and f4 seemed likely, I got in a ...c5 just in time to upset White's plans. Attacking an advancing chain of pawns at its base is generally good strategy.
Personally, as White I like my King's Bishop at c4 instead of g3 because it reinforces the K-side attack.
I might change my openings once again and abondon 1...e5. Is just too dangerous and risky with all the gambits and lines... Something like Scandinavian which i had success in my early days, should serve me well untill i master the deep Calculation, visualization, evaulation to the point i am pretty confiedent + converting endgames in OTB. Also is perfectly fine opening and should bring me close to 1900 OTB if everything other is working. I used to think in order to win games i should attack... yes.. but why don't we let opponent attack, he is not expert or anything and blunder and then we take advantage.
I've played 1...e5 as my only defence for all my life. I still hardly know any theory on it...it's very rare I lose in the opening though.
Noticed this "defense setup" by white is pretty common in my area and just played against it online. My first though is white is creating solid setup against pretty much anything and starts to attack with f4. I think black could attack first somehow and take initiave, because that f4 is too slow in my modest opinion but pretty powerfull once launched. I found out that there are plenty of top GM games started with this line.. so there must be a lot of knowledge about this opening.
What do you think about it , whats the ideas for both side and how black should handle it?