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Ideas against the 2.Bc4 or 3.Bc4 non-open Sicilians

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ExOlsen

A popular anti-Sicilian down at my level is 1.e4 c5 2.Bc4 ("Bowdler" opening), or 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bc4, or even a quick e3 after Bc4 with a closed setup. 

I think that I am drifting a little since there is no open c-file and almost am waiting to see what White does - kind of like being back on your heels on the tennis court, not a good long-term approach. Routine stuff on the queenside (...Qc7, ...Rc8, ...Nd7-b6 etc) when the position is closed seems to give White enough time to rumble over, ho-hum sac on h6 or g6 (for example) and routinely mate you. 

Has anyone put a lot of thought into these lines? Should Black try to blow open and attack the queenside anyway, destroy the center, or charge forward on the kingside? 

IvanHenrickUEP2010

GOOD.

Chuck639

I simply go e6:

https://www.chess.com/game/live/71663563813

https://www.chess.com/game/live/70869125815

I don’t see many Bc4 lines at the 1500-1800 bracket. Guys are more competent than to play the “Italian Opening”.

I run into more Alapins , McDonnell Attacks/Grand Prix/f4 set-up and Closed Sicilians. The odd Smith Morra but e6 is very flexible against the previous mentioned anti-Sicilians and even the open Sicilian as well.

So don’t lose sleep and over analyze it. Surpass the 1500 bracket and you won see many Bowdler Attack as there are more potent options played by white.

If you don’t like hypermodern play, liberate the position with an earlier d5 which in practicality equalizes the game.

nasbiii

Yes, I think Black does pretty well to push for an early ...d5.

null_day

Lines against 2.Bc4 - can be found here, and lines against 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bc4 - here

ExOlsen

Thank you for the comments and replies! I am looking at the lines. Also, just being more alert to it has seemed to reduce my tendency for sleepwalking ... happy.png

IvanHenrickUEP2010

I found the lines against 2. Bc4 way more interesting.

 

ExOlsen
I get a 404 not found on the links but certainly can go explore …e6.
SamuelAjedrez95

Playing a Kan structure and then playing for d5. This can enter a good IQP position.

 

SamuelAjedrez95

If you play d6 then this structure.

It's still a game but white doesn't really have any ideas and black has Qc7, Bd7 or b6-Bb7, Nd4, possible pawn breaks with d5 or b5. Black is just better and has a pleasant game.

Ethan_Brollier
ExOlsen wrote:

A popular anti-Sicilian down at my level is 1.e4 c5 2.Bc4 ("Bowdler" opening), or 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bc4, or even a quick e3 after Bc4 with a closed setup.

Do they include f4? Like 1. e4 c5 2. Bc4 Nc6 3. d3 d6 4. f4? Or do they instead play Nf3 and Bc4 like an Italian against the Sicilian and leave the f-pawn on the second rank?

Sea_TurtIe
Chuck639 wrote:

I simply go e6:

https://www.chess.com/game/live/71663563813

https://www.chess.com/game/live/70869125815

I don’t see many Bc4 lines at the 1500-1800 bracket. Guys are more competent than to play the “Italian Opening”.

I run into more Alapins , McDonnell Attacks/Grand Prix/f4 set-up and Closed Sicilians. The odd Smith Morra but e6 is very flexible against the previous mentioned anti-Sicilians and even the open Sicilian as well.

So don’t lose sleep and over analyze it. Surpass the 1500 bracket and you won see many Bowdler Attack as there are more potent options played by white.

If you don’t like hypermodern play, liberate the position with an earlier d5 which in practicality equalizes the game.

bro where are you at?

im 1800 and i see that as much as i do the open

Sea_TurtIe

but the people that play it are mostly from 3rd world countries interestingly

Sea_TurtIe

but many people who just want to mess you up and confuse you will play as following:

Sea_TurtIe

5. Be7 is prob better

Chuck639
Sea_TurtIe wrote:
Chuck639 wrote:

I simply go e6:

https://www.chess.com/game/live/71663563813

https://www.chess.com/game/live/70869125815

I don’t see many Bc4 lines at the 1500-1800 bracket. Guys are more competent than to play the “Italian Opening”.

I run into more Alapins , McDonnell Attacks/Grand Prix/f4 set-up and Closed Sicilians. The odd Smith Morra but e6 is very flexible against the previous mentioned anti-Sicilians and even the open Sicilian as well.

So don’t lose sleep and over analyze it. Surpass the 1500 bracket and you won see many Bowdler Attack as there are more potent options played by white.

If you don’t like hypermodern play, liberate the position with an earlier d5 which in practicality equalizes the game.

bro where are you at?

im 1800 and i see that as much as i do the open

You can see from my most recent rapid game history, I did not encounter one Bc4 set-up at the 1500-1800 bracket. That’s besides the point anyways, the Bowdler Attack is nothing to be fearful of as white has more potent options. So don’t lose sleep over this.

I saw Bc4 (in my own games and my current student’s) most prevalent at the 800-1200 bracket and my theory is because white is playing an “Italian Game”.