The problem is that h6 should not be played here. It has been a long time since I last played the Caro-Kann (2016), but I seem to recall that Black is supposed to play 6...e6 and 7...Bd6 or 7...Be7 before playing ...h6.
Not totally sure about 6...h6, but on move 7, the move ...h6 is a Blunder, and a famous one that Kasparov played in the final found of the match against Deeper Blue and he lost in 19 moves.
thank you guys. Very interesting stuff. h6 looks natural but I understand the problems with it. Also after fxe6 Bd3 it becomes very hard to develop, and playing something like Nb6 then gives white already the advantage. Apparently the best line after Bd3 is Qa5-Qh5 but its still not so clear
I think you might have gotten the move order wrong, 6. N1f3 is very rare move, usually people play 6. Bd3. In your line, I think white's position is unsound:
On the other hand, after 6. Bd3 black can't play this line since he will get mated with Bg6. The most interesting piece sac line is the famous deep blue - kasparov line. That line is very dangerous, black probably holds but its very hard:
All in all, black should hold in the dangerous piece sac lines, but it's unpleasent (7... Bd6 avoids all of that). As for the line you gave, I think black, objectively, is winning.
ah, thanks, it makes sense, the line I put is the one 2 people played against me in recent games, and its also very complex. Bd3 does look more human but a classical masters game has been played with N1f3 first in the database and ended as a draw. its better for black only if Qa5 Qh5 is played, and only slighly better
This is a line in the Karpov variation of the Caro-Kann. 6. ... e6 and 6. ... h6 are both fine here. But this isn't really a popular line.
Here are some games you can look at:
Oh my bad, I didn't fully read your original post. Anyways, for practical reasons you can just avoid this line with 6... e6. But I think black is close to winning in that line, however, I didn't analyse it that deeply yet. Yet, there must be a reason why players go 6. Bd3 instead of 6. N1f3...
Oh my bad, I didn't fully read your original post. Anyways, for practical reasons you can just avoid this line with 6... e6. But I think black is close to winning in that line, however, I didn't analyse it that deeply yet. Yet, there must be a reason why players go 6. Bd3 instead of 6. N1f3...
Black has a practically dominant position after h6, it is the strongest reply after N1f3, although I suppose e6 is still playable for black.
e6 transposes to the main line after Bd3, which white is very likely to play. But yes I agree, h6 is the best move and the Ne6 sac is bad.
I used to play this line regularly. I agree the sacrifice is not sound, but I had good results with it including two wins against masters. The following article is based on one of those games and the other game is in the notes.
As for what is posted above, I have two comments. First, when Black plays Qa5+, it is a mistake to play Bd2. That's not where the bishop belongs. White should instead play c3 to clear the c2 square for the queen.
Second, it is important for Black to get in the move g5. Otherwise his king bishop and king rook ore left out of the game.
Bad Moves Sometimes Win
Yes, even bad moves can win - IF you know what you are doing AND your opponent DOESN'T!
Grinberg, Matthew M. - Karell, Leif
DC Chess League, Summer 1995, Open Section
Arlington Kings vs. Coral Reef
Arlington Chess Club, Arlington, Virginia
8/3/1995, 1:0
Caro-Kann Defense
[The main alternative to 4... Nd7 is 4... Bf5 which immediately solves the problem of the queen bishop, but at the expense the bishop coming under attack. The line is 5. Ng3 Bg6 6. h4 h6 7. h5 Bh7 8. Nf3 Nf6 9. Bd3 when the bishop is exchanged off anyway]
[The normal moves are 6. Nxf6 which frees Black's queen bishop after 6... Nxf6;
or 6. Ng3 which avoids freeing Black's position, but at the expense of retreating the knight]
6... h6 7. Ne6?! The point is that after 7... fxe6, Black's doubled e-pawns will prove to be a barrier to Black developing and organizing his pieces and Black's king will be open to attack on the h5-e8 diagonal. It's true that after 7. Nxf7, White gets a pawn for the knight, but Black will have much less trouble developing his pieces than after 7. Ne6.
I showed this to GM Larry Kaufman once. His response was "I can see how it would cause Black problems, but it can't be correct."
But chess is not about playing correct moves. Chess is about playing winning moves. I have played 7. Ne6 twice against masters (Leif was 2200 at the time of this game) and won both times! Why? First, because this sacrifice is not to be found in any book. It is my own invention (I concede that there is a game with this sacrifice in my database played in 1989 - three years before I first played it - but I had no prior knowledge of the earlier game. Thus I can be fairly confident my opponent will not know what to do. Second, this sacrifice sets Black some very difficult problems, problems he is not likely to solve with limited time on the clock. Finally, this sacrifice is particularly good against a conservative player like Leif. What Black cannot afford to do is precisely what Leif did - just hunker down a try to hold on to the extra material.
[Yes, White can avoid a loss of material with 7. Nh3 g5 8. Nhg1 , but I wouldn't have played 6. Neg5 if I intended to retreat]
7... fxe6!
[Black could decline the sacrifice with 7... Qb6?! Then 8. Nxf8 (Or White can just leave the knight as a thorn in Black's side 8. Bd3!? Black has nothing better to do than take the knight anyway, but now under less favorable circumstances 8... fxe6 9. Bg6 Kd8 10. O-O The position is unclear) 8... Nxf8 White has a small edge due to the bishop pair]
[Instead he needs to fight for activity. 8... Qa5 9. c3! The idea is to clear c2 for the queen so as to reinforce the threat of Bg6+. (It is tempting to play 9. Bd2?! since it attacks the queen, but it just forces the queen to go where it wants to go anyway. 9... Qh5 A game I played in 1989 against Bob Fischer (the Virginia Master, not the former World Champion, Bobby Fischer) continued 10. c4 e5 11. g4? A flawed attempt to muddy the waters. I am lost after this move, but ended up winning because in a very difficult game Bob simply made the last blunder. (Instead I can force him to return the extra piece with 11. Nxe5 Nxe5 12. Qxh5 Nxh5 13. dxe5 Kf7 14. g4 Bxg4 15. Rg1! Rd8 16. Be4 Be6 17. Bg6 Kg8 18. Bxh5 Bxc4 But Black's extra pawn is more than enough compensation for his awkward position) 11... Nxg4 12. Qc2 Kd8 13. O-O-O g5 14. Bg6 Qh3 15. Nxe5 Ngxe5 16. dxe5 e6 17. Ba5 b6 18. Rd3 Qg4 19. Rhd1 Rg8 20. Rd4 Qf3 21. Be4 Qf4 22. Kb1 Bc5 23. Rxd7 Bxd7 24. Bxc6 Qf5 25. Rxd7 Kc8 26. Be4 Qxe5 27. Bc3 Qxh2 28. Bxa8 Kxd7 29. Qh7 Be7 30. Qxg8 Qg1 31. Kc2 Qxf2 32. Kb3 Qc5 33. Qb8 a5 34. Qa7 Ke8 35. Bf3 Qe3 36. Bh5 Kd8 37. Qb8 Kd7 38. Be8#) 9... g5! A key move, freeing up his kingside. 10. Bg6 Kd8 11. O-O Bg7 12. Re1 White has some compensation for the piece, but it is not enough]
9... g6 10. Ne5?! Since the purpose of the sacrifice is bottle up Black's pieces, it makes no sense to allow Black to trade off the knight on d7.
[Better is 10. O-O Bg7 11. Re1 Nf8 12. Ne5 Kg8 13. Bxg6 Nxg6 14. Nxg6 The position is about as clear as mud]
10... Nxe5 11. dxe5 Nd5? Giving up what was left of his advantage.
[Better is 11... Nd7 tying White to the defense of e5. 12. O-O Bg7 White's compensation for the piece is inadequate]
[What he needs is to develop his pieces even at the cost of giving up the pawn on g6. 13... Bd7 14. Qg4 Kg8 15. c4 Nb4 16. Bxg6 h5 17. Qg5 Bg7 18. O-O c5 The position is unclear]
[For instance 14... Kg8 15. Bxg6 Threatening mate in one 15... Nf6 16. exf6 exf6 17. Rg3 Bg7 18. Bd2 Qe7 19. O-O-O Material is even, but Black's position is a shambles]
[15. exf6?! exf6 16. Qg3 f5 Black still has some problems, but he has an extra pawn, some defense for his king and is free to develop his pieces. The chances are equal]
15... Qa5 16. Kf1 Bd7 17. Rg3 Ng4 18. Qe4 Be8 19. f3 Qd5 Leif offers the piece back in order to trade queens, relieving the pressure on his king.
20... Qxe4 21. Bxe4 Material has returned to even, but those doubled, isolated e-pawns blockaded by my pawn on e5 are still a cloud of doom over Black's position. 21... Rd8 22. g5 After this move Leif's team mate, Sal Rosario, looked at the position and started to laugh. Black's position is a sorry sight.
22... Rd4 23. Re1 Kh7 24. Rd3 Rxd3 25. Bxd3 Bg7 26. Bc4 Rf8 27. g3 Bd7 28. Ke2 c5 29. Rd1 Bc6! I saw what was coming, but since I felt my bishop pair would easily win against his rook, I decided to "fall" for his trap.
[34... Rc1 35. Kd2 Rf1 White is certainly winning, but with Black's active rook on the board, things could happen]
35... Kg7 36. c4 b6 37. a4 The plan is to bust up his queen side pawns, then move my king in for the kill. Another plan would be to create a passed pawn by playing 37. g4, but I preferred to keep his king bottled up and out of the game.
37... Kh7 38. a5 bxa5 39. Bxa5 Rb8 40. Bc3 a5 41. Ke3 a4 42. Ke4 a3 43. bxa3 Rb3 44. Be5 Rxa3
[Black could try 44... Re3! I have to confess that I didn't think of this until after my last move. It's just dumb luck that it doesn't work. 45. Kd5! (Not 45. Kxe3?? stalemate) 45... Rd3 46. Kxc5 and Black's little adventure comes to an end since 46... Rd5?? allows 47. Bxd5 and there is no stalemate]
[Or 56... Rc4 57. Kxe3 Rxb4 58. c7 Rc4 59. c8=Q winning]
I consider this one of my best games. The win was largely the result of home preparation. It's not that I memorized a bunch of lines. Rather I had an idea of the plans that can arise from the sacrifice and what works (such as the bind on e5) and what doesn't (such as taking the knight on f6).
For years I kept playing 6. Neg5 hoping that my opponents would answer with 6... h6. Every time 6... h6 was played I won. Even when 6... h6 was not played (usually 6... e6 instead), I won most of the time. Whether or not my opponents played 6... h6 I would after the game show them the 7. Ne6 sacrifice and how to defend against it. In 2006 I played a lower rated player who played 6... h6. After 7. Ne6 fxe6 he defended expertly and won. After the game I praised him on his excellent defense. He responded, "Don't you remember? We played this line two years ago and you won. After the game you showed me how to defend. I just played this game according to your plan." Oops! I had completely forgotten that. Then and there I vowed never to play 6. Neg5 again.
Well, it was fun while it lasted.
Matt Grinberg, 3/10/2015
I used to play this line regularly. I agree the sacrifice is not sound, but I had good results with it including two wins against masters. The following article is based on one of those games and the other game is in the notes.
As for what is posted above, I have two comments. First, when Black plays Qa5+, it is a mistake to play Bd2. That's not where the bishop belongs. White should instead play c3 to clear the c2 square for the queen.
Second, it is important for Black to get in the move g5. Otherwise his king bishop and king rook ore left out of the game.
Bad Moves Sometimes Win
Yes, even bad moves can win - IF you know what you are doing AND your opponent DOESN'T!
Grinberg, Matthew M. - Karell, Leif
DC Chess League, Summer 1995, Open Section
Arlington Kings vs. Coral Reef
Arlington Chess Club, Arlington, Virginia
8/3/1995, 1:0
Caro-Kann Defense
[The main alternative to 4... Nd7 is 4... Bf5 which immediately solves the problem of the queen bishop, but at the expense the bishop coming under attack. The line is 5. Ng3 Bg6 6. h4 h6 7. h5 Bh7 8. Nf3 Nf6 9. Bd3 when the bishop is exchanged off anyway]
[The normal moves are 6. Nxf6 which frees Black's queen bishop after 6... Nxf6;
or 6. Ng3 which avoids freeing Black's position, but at the expense of retreating the knight]
6... h6 7. Ne6?! The point is that after 7... fxe6, Black's doubled e-pawns will prove to be a barrier to Black developing and organizing his pieces and Black's king will be open to attack on the h5-e8 diagonal. It's true that after 7. Nxf7, White gets a pawn for the knight, but Black will have much less trouble developing his pieces than after 7. Ne6.
I showed this to GM Larry Kaufman once. His response was "I can see how it would cause Black problems, but it can't be correct."
But chess is not about playing correct moves. Chess is about playing winning moves. I have played 7. Ne6 twice against masters (Leif was 2200 at the time of this game) and won both times! Why? First, because this sacrifice is not to be found in any book. It is my own invention (I concede that there is a game with this sacrifice in my database played in 1989 - three years before I first played it - but I had no prior knowledge of the earlier game. Thus I can be fairly confident my opponent will not know what to do. Second, this sacrifice sets Black some very difficult problems, problems he is not likely to solve with limited time on the clock. Finally, this sacrifice is particularly good against a conservative player like Leif. What Black cannot afford to do is precisely what Leif did - just hunker down a try to hold on to the extra material.
[Yes, White can avoid a loss of material with 7. Nh3 g5 8. Nhg1 , but I wouldn't have played 6. Neg5 if I intended to retreat]
7... fxe6!
[Black could decline the sacrifice with 7... Qb6?! Then 8. Nxf8 (Or White can just leave the knight as a thorn in Black's side 8. Bd3!? Black has nothing better to do than take the knight anyway, but now under less favorable circumstances 8... fxe6 9. Bg6 Kd8 10. O-O The position is unclear) 8... Nxf8 White has a small edge due to the bishop pair]
[Instead he needs to fight for activity. 8... Qa5 9. c3! The idea is to clear c2 for the queen so as to reinforce the threat of Bg6+. (It is tempting to play 9. Bd2?! since it attacks the queen, but it just forces the queen to go where it wants to go anyway. 9... Qh5 A game I played in 1989 against Bob Fischer (the Virginia Master, not the former World Champion, Bobby Fischer) continued 10. c4 e5 11. g4? A flawed attempt to muddy the waters. I am lost after this move, but ended up winning because in a very difficult game Bob simply made the last blunder. (Instead I can force him to return the extra piece with 11. Nxe5 Nxe5 12. Qxh5 Nxh5 13. dxe5 Kf7 14. g4 Bxg4 15. Rg1! Rd8 16. Be4 Be6 17. Bg6 Kg8 18. Bxh5 Bxc4 But Black's extra pawn is more than enough compensation for his awkward position) 11... Nxg4 12. Qc2 Kd8 13. O-O-O g5 14. Bg6 Qh3 15. Nxe5 Ngxe5 16. dxe5 e6 17. Ba5 b6 18. Rd3 Qg4 19. Rhd1 Rg8 20. Rd4 Qf3 21. Be4 Qf4 22. Kb1 Bc5 23. Rxd7 Bxd7 24. Bxc6 Qf5 25. Rxd7 Kc8 26. Be4 Qxe5 27. Bc3 Qxh2 28. Bxa8 Kxd7 29. Qh7 Be7 30. Qxg8 Qg1 31. Kc2 Qxf2 32. Kb3 Qc5 33. Qb8 a5 34. Qa7 Ke8 35. Bf3 Qe3 36. Bh5 Kd8 37. Qb8 Kd7 38. Be8#) 9... g5! A key move, freeing up his kingside. 10. Bg6 Kd8 11. O-O Bg7 12. Re1 White has some compensation for the piece, but it is not enough]
9... g6 10. Ne5?! Since the purpose of the sacrifice is bottle up Black's pieces, it makes no sense to allow Black to trade off the knight on d7.
[Better is 10. O-O Bg7 11. Re1 Nf8 12. Ne5 Kg8 13. Bxg6 Nxg6 14. Nxg6 The position is about as clear as mud]
10... Nxe5 11. dxe5 Nd5? Giving up what was left of his advantage.
[Better is 11... Nd7 tying White to the defense of e5. 12. O-O Bg7 White's compensation for the piece is inadequate]
[What he needs is to develop his pieces even at the cost of giving up the pawn on g6. 13... Bd7 14. Qg4 Kg8 15. c4 Nb4 16. Bxg6 h5 17. Qg5 Bg7 18. O-O c5 The position is unclear]
[For instance 14... Kg8 15. Bxg6 Threatening mate in one 15... Nf6 16. exf6 exf6 17. Rg3 Bg7 18. Bd2 Qe7 19. O-O-O Material is even, but Black's position is a shambles]
[15. exf6?! exf6 16. Qg3 f5 Black still has some problems, but he has an extra pawn, some defense for his king and is free to develop his pieces. The chances are equal]
15... Qa5 16. Kf1 Bd7 17. Rg3 Ng4 18. Qe4 Be8 19. f3 Qd5 Leif offers the piece back in order to trade queens, relieving the pressure on his king.
20... Qxe4 21. Bxe4 Material has returned to even, but those doubled, isolated e-pawns blockaded by my pawn on e5 are still a cloud of doom over Black's position. 21... Rd8 22. g5 After this move Leif's team mate, Sal Rosario, looked at the position and started to laugh. Black's position is a sorry sight.
22... Rd4 23. Re1 Kh7 24. Rd3 Rxd3 25. Bxd3 Bg7 26. Bc4 Rf8 27. g3 Bd7 28. Ke2 c5 29. Rd1 Bc6! I saw what was coming, but since I felt my bishop pair would easily win against his rook, I decided to "fall" for his trap.
[34... Rc1 35. Kd2 Rf1 White is certainly winning, but with Black's active rook on the board, things could happen]
35... Kg7 36. c4 b6 37. a4 The plan is to bust up his queen side pawns, then move my king in for the kill. Another plan would be to create a passed pawn by playing 37. g4, but I preferred to keep his king bottled up and out of the game.
37... Kh7 38. a5 bxa5 39. Bxa5 Rb8 40. Bc3 a5 41. Ke3 a4 42. Ke4 a3 43. bxa3 Rb3 44. Be5 Rxa3
[Black could try 44... Re3! I have to confess that I didn't think of this until after my last move. It's just dumb luck that it doesn't work. 45. Kd5! (Not 45. Kxe3?? stalemate) 45... Rd3 46. Kxc5 and Black's little adventure comes to an end since 46... Rd5?? allows 47. Bxd5 and there is no stalemate]
[Or 56... Rc4 57. Kxe3 Rxb4 58. c7 Rc4 59. c8=Q winning]
I consider this one of my best games. The win was largely the result of home preparation. It's not that I memorized a bunch of lines. Rather I had an idea of the plans that can arise from the sacrifice and what works (such as the bind on e5) and what doesn't (such as taking the knight on f6).
For years I kept playing 6. Neg5 hoping that my opponents would answer with 6... h6. Every time 6... h6 was played I won. Even when 6... h6 was not played (usually 6... e6 instead), I won most of the time. Whether or not my opponents played 6... h6 I would after the game show them the 7. Ne6 sacrifice and how to defend against it. In 2006 I played a lower rated player who played 6... h6. After 7. Ne6 fxe6 he defended expertly and won. After the game I praised him on his excellent defense. He responded, "Don't you remember? We played this line two years ago and you won. After the game you showed me how to defend. I just played this game according to your plan." Oops! I had completely forgotten that. Then and there I vowed never to play 6. Neg5 again.
Well, it was fun while it lasted.
Matt Grinberg, 3/10/2015
just saw this reply, enjoyed it, thank you! some caro lines are indeed very tricky, you think youve solved a line and finally it bites back
I face this sacrifice so often it's insane. What's the best way to counter it? Recently I've been avoiding playing h6 until after I play Bf5 and e6.
Ive encountered this sacrifice 3 or 4 times by now as black, and its extremely difficult to face? engine thinks black is slighly better, what do you forumers think?