Ruy Lopez - Neo Archangelsk?

I've been looking at this variation in the Ruy Lopez and I'm wondering why it isn't used more?:

Apparently it's called the 'Neo-Archangelsk'.  I play the Black side of the Ruy quite a bit and I often find the dark bishop to be next to useless on e7, so it would seem like a logical alternative to bring it outside of the pawn chain before playing d6.  As well as being more active there, it also helps to apply pressure to d4.

I guess one downside is the White can hit the Bishop right away with d4, although according to the Game Explorer, Black seems to get some reasonable results in that variation.

Any thoughts?

It's pretty popular among strong GMs I believe, or at least it was not so long ago.

Just wonder if anyone knows to explain - why bishop goes to b3 and not to c2 when ...b5 is played? What's the basic idea behind?

Thanks for the comments guys.  It's interesting that some GMs are trying it - might have to give it a go myself! 

Thanks. I mostly play RL as white, but it's nice to see it from black's perspective, too.

Another possible downside of ..Bc5 is that the f6 Knight can be pinned.  This is one of the variations I saw on the Game Explorer:

White seems to do fairly well here, as Black has to untangle the Knight & Rook ...

I play the chigorin and on c5 I put my pawn. I feel it liberates the pieces quite nicely and fights for the control of the centre.

The dark bishop is always useful to defend d6 if the line gets open.

Tbh, I think this pretty well sums up why I'm not too happy about the bishop on e7 .  It's a solid position, but the bishop is quite restricted and passive.

I haven't tried this approach yet, but I think I might prefer some more chances of active counterplay at the expense of a slightly less-solid position.

@Stavros_34: Thanks, that's a good point.  Maybe that line isn't so bad for Black after all.  Besides, Black could possibly avoid it if they wanted by playing ..Na5 instead of ..h6, to deflect White's bishop off of the a2-g8 diagonal.

@ Time4Tea the differences are very very subtle to be honest. I'll try to explain them with out writing a bible lol to you.

I like playing the Arch Angel variation.

Usually the bishop on c5 gets in the way. White often trys for a4 or Nc3 than a4 in these positions. And if the bishop goes to c5 and a4 is played the bishop might lose some scope or be open to tempo hits. White doesn't have to play king side in this position persay. They can play queen side and in the middle. Which is rather more juicy since all your pieces will be open for pawn tempo stabs.

However, that is the Arch Angel move order which is a different move order.

By using the Arch Angel move order you bascially remain flexible with your dark bishop placement. You want to make sure your dark bishop doesn't go to c5 and your light bishop is on b7 in this type of structure. It just doesn't end well for black.

In the move order you are using your dark bishop is already fixed.

I think white gets a good game.

I think that is a critical position of this line. Also 9.a4 has been played here. I think that scores fairly well as well. I think this position is a critical one.

EDIT: I took out the Tal comment I made because I simply can't remember lol who's game I saw lol like this.

I think there is also another line which can be played by white at move 8.

Isn't that the saddest position you ever seen in your life. Blacks all caged up into a little box. Again an engine check would probably be required. However, that is what human databases filtered at 2200+ believe is most popular move with 8...Rb8.

I don't know if its the best move but that sure does look so sad for black. All boxed in like that.

                                        Arch Angel Defence                                 

" I play the Arch Angel Variation. It is Heavenly HA HA."

"The bishop gets fianchetteo'ed on b7 and it is a Holy Terror HA HA."

Hi X_PLAYER_J_X, those are some interesting lines; however:

First line:  after 9.Be3, Black can harrass the Bishop with ..Ng4 or take the e-pawn with ..Nxe4 right away, which might lead to some interesting compications.  One of these options would likely still be available even after castling first.  Although, neither of those lines seem to have been played in the Game Explorer, so maybe they are suspect.  I'll think on them some more ...

[update: no, taking the e-pawn loses a knight after Bd5!  ..Ng4 will probably just end up with the knight being pushed back by h3 ... ultimately just losing a tempo.]

Second line:  after 10.a5, Black can just take the a-pawn with either the Night or Bishop, although White seems to be able to generate a seemingly strong attack by sacrificing the exchange to draw Black pieces away from the center:

although, these lines aren't forced and Black seems to have lots of alternative options (i.e. developing the light bishop rather than playing 8..Rb8).

Nice graphics! 

First line: 9.Be3 It seems you figured it out

That line might be a problem for black.

Second line: 10...Bxa5 loses the bishop

10...Nxa5 seems very juicy for an attack. Its a deflection move. Which can give a lot of head-aches.

However, there is maybe 2 more line you didn't mention which I think are pretty interesting as well.

I also like another line. I have not checked with an engine so the line is probably totally unsound. However, I don't care lol I think it looks so kool.

The Ruy Lopez Opening was actually called the Spanish Opening which was used a lot in spain. They renamed the opening after a Spanish priest put some analysis in the line. No one has a clue what he was trying to achieve from his analysis of this line. His variations were unclear even during his time. No one understood them. However, the chess community admired his work on the line. Which is how it got named after him.

The name of the Spanish Priest was:

Ruy Lopez de Segura

Ruy Lopez de Segura was a spanish priest during the Spanish Inquisition.

Because of this historical fact, The nickname of this line has been often known as the Spanish Torture.

Why do I bring this up you may ask? Because if you miss handle the Ruy Lopez you will find out very fast how much torture it can give you! You might even meet your maker before having confession!

Now is the above picture I showed good? I have no idea I didn't engine check it but it sure looks scary.

Thank you yeah I added some more just for the giggles lol.

Tbh, I'm not sure I really like ..Rb8 after a4 in those lines much.  Is the rook really that useful on b8?  I'd probably be more inclined to develop the light bishop to g4/b7/d7 and leave the rook for a later move.  I think the dark bishop seems ok on a7 - he still has some activity and I'd probably still rather have him there than on e7!

In both those lines, ..Nxe5 after Ng5 seems to be asking for trouble, with 2 White pieces bearing down on f7. I think ..0-0 would be clearly safer:

(love the Monty Python reference, by the way!)

Or, Black could possibly try something a bit wilder (Traxler-style?):

(I make no guarantees over the soundness of these lines)

The more I look at this line. I see other moves lol.

I wonder if the move Ng4 by black loses a piece there?

Maybe black can avoid the loss of a piece. I don't know but it sure looks complicated.