Schliemann defense

 

Yes, that's the engine's first choice. But 13...Bb4! wasn't some casual punt in a blitz game. This was high-level correspondence, where both players obviously considered 14 Qc4 for White. In fact Nisipeanu had prepared the whole thing to play against Carlsen. After 14...Qc5 15 Qxc5 Bxc5 and then, for instance, 16 Ke2 c6 17 Nc3 Ne6 18 Nxe4 Rhe8, Black actually has compensation for three pawns, as Junior Tay shows in his recent book. Apparently, Nisipeanu was more worried about 14 0-0 Qc5+ 15 Rf2 Qxc2 16 d4, though that's defensible as well (my one draw came in this line).

I'd just like to point out that in the Tarrasch game, there was threefold repetition starting on move 49.

The Schliemann is a great opening choice- very interesting positions!!  I became aware of it many years ago when playing the white side of the Lopez against a friend of mine who always played 3..f5

but he deviated:  e4 e5 Nf3 Nc6 Bb5 f5 Nc3?! (d3 might be the safest choice)  Nd4!! (instead of the more common fxe)   Now try and play it from white side and see how hard it is to refute!

Ps: whether you move the bishop, or capture the pawns, you might think white has an advantage, but black always seems to have very active counterplay !!  (if in doubt, try it as white and let me know what "winning" lines you find).  Nd4 is quite the move!!

Yes, 4...Nd4 (first played by Réti in 1919) can lead to very interesting positions. Unfortunately it's been pretty much worked out now, with the conclusion that 5 exf5 is good for White.

All openings are playable you are not a GM and neither is your opponent.

Interesting that you brought up the Shamkovich book, as that was my main reference back in the late 80's when I used to play my friend. There really wasnt much else. I can only dream back then of all the resources we have now.  I wasnt able to go online in those days to gather more info, so the whole Nd4 move by my friend really caught my attention. I tried all sorts of lines in that Shamkovich book, but black seemed to prevail somehow...

Unfortunately, my friend doesnt play chess anymore. I'll have to see if I kept any old notes of the games.  There is another good book on the Schliemann by Junior Tay (move by move), I was really excited to get it when it was new, only to discover its all about fxe and only one game on Nd4 (page 247, looking at it now) however, it does recommend 5) exf5, so that might be end up being the correct refutation. Suppose I can test it vs computer and see how it goes...

I cant help but compare my experiences as white against it, with any master or GM games played nowadays. Atleast now, vs 1987 when I was 23 yrs old, I can easily find alot more Info online (Chessbase, 365 Chess and so forth). 

Fischer played the Lopez often, its too bad the Schliemann was seldom seen, would be great to see how he would have handled it.  I have seen some games with Carlsen and todays top players, but they are mostly fxe lines, not Nd4! which I find to be so very interesting.  Kudos to anyone who chooses it as black, I admire your choice!  One thing for sure: the position and games will never be dull & boring.

I think 4) d3 seems to be the safest and what Carlsen would play, vs all the wild lines that can arise out of Nc3 and Nd4.  I was hoping Karjakan would have tried it against Carlsen in their championship match instead of all the long winded 3...a6 lines...

Ps: even strong females have played it too, 1978 championship match (d3 line):

https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1047306

Also, and perhaps the best from back then: Play the Schliemann Defence by Victor Ivanov & Alex Kulagin.

More recently, Ivan Sokolov's The Ruy Lopez Revisited has several pages on 4...Nd4 – and more on 4...Nf6 which can often transpose.

The Ruy Lopez Revisited by Ivan Sokolov (2009)
http://dev.jeremysilman.com/shop/pc/Ruy-Lopez-Revisited-The-p3765.htm
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/931.pdf
The Schliemann Defence: Move by Move

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7797.pdf

Radjabov played 17 games with the Schliemann 2007-11 against players like Carlsen (3 times), Kramnik, Anand, Topalov, Karjakin, etc and only lost one of them:

https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?playercomp=black&pid=49796&eco=C63&title=Radjabov+playing+Ruy+Lopez,+Schliemann+Defense+(C63)+as+Black+

 

Yes, I had looked over those games, many are with d3, would have been interesting to see how Nc3 Nd4 was handled. 

 

If Black plays 8.. dxc instead of Nf6, looks like a forced draw! 

 

Dunno, but 6 Nxd4 exd4 7 Qh5+ is unnecessarily sharp. Simply 6 Ba4 is better.

Philipper wrote: An opening which has been fascinating me for a while is the Schliemann defense played in the Ruy Lopez or Spanish opening. Playing directly for the initiative with this aggressive opening by opening the f-file and attacking the kingside. It can also be used as a surprise weapon against your unknowing opponent! The opening goes as following:After this, white has a numerous options like 4.exf5, 4.d3 or maybe 4.d4!? but developing with 4.Nc3 is considered best, as it develops a piece and supports the e4 pawn.Below a wonderful game played by Pillsbury against Tarrasch:I would like to conclude this article with my own game where I was playing with the black pieces:Please let me know what you think of this interesting opening and your good/bad experiences with it!

 

Thanks for an interesting thread about an opening you have played for some time. I have to admit that I struggle a bit as black in positions similar to the Karjakin - Radjabov ending that was drawn. I feel that white often gets a slight pull, especially in the lines with 10. d4.

 

I no more play 2...Nc6.