Switching to Sicilian, but which Sicilian?

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icy
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:

The evidence isn't true so it can't support the claim.

This is like you convict someone in court based on planted evidence.

This is a ridiculous analogy

paper_llama

I think useful for a new player is that...

When your opponent plays 1.e4 then you'd like to play d5 at some point if possible (whether it's a Spanish or Sicilian or etc). If it's impossible then sometimes f5 will be good.

And if your opponent plays 1.d4 you'd like to play c5 or e5.

Develop, castle, play a pawn break... that will get you a successful middlegame.

If you can't answer "which sicilian should I choose" on your own by picking something that looks attractive, then you should probably just follow general principles... and if you are good enough that you'll be attracted to one of the Sicilians, then stop being lazy and asking the forums, go read wiki for some basic info tongue.png

paper_llama
GYG wrote:
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:

I'm not even going on about that. The point is he said the most common line of the Morra below 1600 leads to mate in 9 when it doesn't.

I've explained a million times what the point that the lines were illustrating is. At this point you are in denial.

@SamuelAjedrez95 arguing with 4 people who are all more than double his rating reminds me a bit of this

The way he misses every punch by a mile is hillarious grin.png

paper_llama
paper_llama wrote:
icy wrote:
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:

@icy

Ok well you kind of just came in the middle of this and all of it was about that. Lol.

The issue is that you are concluding that someone else's claim is invalid just because the evidence is unreasonable.

A child could not adequately explain to you why we need oxygen to survive, but he would still be correct.

... but if an alien who knew nothing about earth asked a child, and the child said nonsense, it'd be reasonable to not believe them.

Bruh, you downvoted this but it wasn't even about you...

ssctk
DrumstickChippopotamus wrote:

I have played the French Defense for a long time.

I'd like something more aggressive and dynamic, so would like to learn either the Najdorf or the Dragon.

Lots of people have opinions I'm sure, would love to hear them.

Between Dragon and Najdorf, Najdorf hands down, I had played both in the past.

What I'd do in your shoes though is challenge the notion that you need to change the French ( which I've never played ). If you want more dynamics, why not invest time in the Winawer?

GhostRider_2012

Najdorf and Dragon are the best choices in Sicilian

pleewo
AsmodeusTheThird wrote:

You should learn The Sicilian Nimzowitsch. It is a very rare variation of the Sicilian with great lines and attacking chances for black that your opponent will not be prepared for. There is also a great Chess.com lesson series on the Sicilian Nimzowitsch.

The entire reason black plays d6 is to control e5! Why would you play Nf6, inviting the very move!

pleewo

Against the Sicilian, In his Chessable course, he recommends the Magnus Sicilian with 2.Nc3 and d4. against 2..Nc6 he recommends Bb5 the Tiviakov Sicilian. Respectable! In his chessly course, he gives 2’recommendations. 2.a3 and 2.b3, a3 is laughable, b3 is not that bad imo but isn’t very ambitious

pleewo
paper_llama wrote:

I think the sicilian is a bad choice... but I'm biased because I dislike it as both colors so... what do I know.

IMO it doesn't teach good principles. There are plenty of lines with black hiding in the center and needing tactics to force counterplay or die... there are lots of lines with black falling far behind in development... it's just not an opening you can make sense out of until you're a very strong player... the only thing low rated players can do is memorize a lot and hope tactics appear... sure that's one way to play chess, but it's a way that's very uninteresting to me personally... obviously some people love it (and are successful at it).

I have no idea what you are talking about! White plays e4, wanting to play d4. Black plays c5 to control d4! And if at any point white plays d4, black takes with the pawn and trades a c-pawn for a d-pawn! Makes perfect sense! The reason why the open Sicilian is the main line is because white plays Nf3, preparing d4! Black generally plays d6, controlling e5, and says “you can play d4, and I will trade a non center pawn for a center pawn!” White plays d4, fair enough! Black takes, white takes! Black plays Nf6, developing and attacking e4, white plays Nc3, developing and defending e4! Makes perfect sense! Or white could play the Alapin, my favourite anti Sicilian! White plays c3, preparing d4 and to take back with the pawn! Makes perfect sense! D4 is impossible to stop so black instead attacks the e4 pawn with either Nf6 or d5! Makes perfect sense!

icy
FrogboyWarpz wrote:
paper_llama wrote:

I think the sicilian is a bad choice... but I'm biased because I dislike it as both colors so... what do I know.

IMO it doesn't teach good principles. There are plenty of lines with black hiding in the center and needing tactics to force counterplay or die... there are lots of lines with black falling far behind in development... it's just not an opening you can make sense out of until you're a very strong player... the only thing low rated players can do is memorize a lot and hope tactics appear... sure that's one way to play chess, but it's a way that's very uninteresting to me personally... obviously some people love it (and are successful at it).

I have no idea what you are talking about! White plays e4, wanting to play d4. Black plays c5 to control d4! And if at any point white plays d4, black takes with the pawn and trades a c-pawn for a d-pawn! Makes perfect sense! The reason why the open Sicilian is the main line is because white plays Nf3, preparing d4! Black generally plays d6, controlling e5, and says “you can play d4, and I will trade a non center pawn for a center pawn!” White plays d4, fair enough! Black takes, white takes! Black plays Nf6, developing and attacking e4, white plays Nc3, developing and defending e4! Makes perfect sense! Or white could play the Alapin, my favourite anti Sicilian! White plays c3, preparing d4 and to take back with the pawn! Makes perfect sense! D4 is impossible to stop so black instead attacks the e4 pawn with either Nf6 or d5! Makes perfect sense!

Very superficial.

pleewo

Every major opening makes at least some sense, saying the Sicilian makes 0 sense, makes 0 sense! Otherwise why would the Najdorf be a core part of MVL’a repertoire? Or Kasparov? Or Magnus with his Sveshnikov?

The Italian, Ruy Lopez, Queens Gambit, Sveshnikov, they are all based off pure logic and opening principles if you break it down!

BOWTOTHETOAST
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:

@NEETHUDAS123

Your line makes no sense. On move 6, white has 6. Nxc6 bxc6 7. e5 but instead plays 6. Bd3 hanging Nxd4. What on earth is going on on this game?

I said I am not good at chess. Also, what is "on on". I might be worse at chess than you, but I am better In english.

mrOpenRuy
paper_llama wrote:
mrOpenRuy wrote:

i think if black were to follow common sicilian plans he would be fine

a common setup like this for example should be fine for black

Setups with both bishop on your 2nd rank are usually passive/bad... they block the file for if/when either of the center files opens... but sure, that's something you can usually get away with at ____ rating.

black gets counterplay in the center/queenside, and all they have to do is hold their position if their a pawn up like they may be in the smith-morra

Ilampozhil25

ok i will summarise this:

people: sicilian bad, for xx reason, dont play it

samuel: sicilian good, for yy reason, must play it, also; you are a gatekeeper

tbh samuel is doing the same thing as the other people but in reverse; but they are gatekeeping and he isnt?

and THEN HE CALLS THEM OUT FOR UNFAIRNESS

this is hypocrisy at its finest

mrOpenRuy

samuel is telling people not to gatekeep, and hes not saying you must play

mrOpenRuy
FrogboyWarpz wrote:

Every major opening makes at least some sense, saying the Sicilian makes 0 sense, makes 0 sense! Otherwise why would the Najdorf be a core part of MVL’a repertoire? Or Kasparov? Or Magnus with his Sveshnikov?

The Italian, Ruy Lopez, Queens Gambit, Sveshnikov, they are all based off pure logic and opening principles if you break it down!

the sicilian does make sense, a6 prevents white from attacking the backwards pawn, c5 gives black 2 center pawns and white 1, and blacks developing setup is competely understandble

the way black sets up in the english najdorf is only possible because he played a6

mrOpenRuy
mrOpenRuy

@SamuelAjedrez95

which nadjorf line for white do you recommend? is Bc4 any good and what does it do after e6?

Ilampozhil25

#129, anybody?

also, he references andras who "says everyone should play open sicilian from both sides"

anyway, i dont want to pick a fight and i kinda agree with samuels point

except for the fact that there are other openings which are just as rich and diverse (if not more) than the sicilian and they arent mentioned

in fact, his only mention of non sicilians are the setup openings (in stereotyping? the 'gatekeepers') or traps (in the discussion about "hard to play") and not rich positions (btw others did this)

and, that isnt off topic as i think the original post was open enough for interpretation such as "xx opening is also very good and tactical"

Ilampozhil25

and i mean, i think samuel wants to discuss the merits of the sicilian even in non sicilian threads "every thread that samuel visits becomes a sicilian thread" so really i want to tell-

there are other perfectly fine openings; chess starting position isnt the one with whites e pawn on e4 and blacks on c5!