The practical refutation of the Sicilian Defense

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Avatar of Decoy321

I never play 1. e4 problem solved grin.png

Avatar of yureesystem
Sarogar wrote:

@yureesystem

 

What to you play against  Sveshnikov? : e4 c5 nf3 nc6 d4 cxd4 nxd4 nf6 nc3 e5

I would imagine the g3 system bites on it's own pawn, but i guess the Bishop on g2 provides indirect control of d5? Perhaps the Knight on d4 drops back to e2 instead of the normal b5 or b3?

 

 Fianchetto variation is not a good system against Sveshnikov, too much center play and not enough flexibility and forcefulness. I like 7. Nd5, it give white nice chances for an advantage.  

 

  

Avatar of Stay138
I think black don't need b6 against this g3 system,b5 can start the counter play. Keep the e5d6 pawn structure,let the white bishop closed by e4pawn.
Avatar of TwoMove

The position after 13Re1 in the last g3 schevengen game, is well-known with over 200 master games on live chessbase. Most FIDE 2600+ players play 13...Rae8, or 13...Nd7. 13...Rf-e8 doesn't make much sense if intending playing f5 later. 

Avatar of Sarozen

Thank you @yureesystem. I have been looking for a line against the Sveshn. I will try this Nd5 idea out. 

Avatar of Sarozen
Decoy321 wrote:

I never play 1. e4 problem solved

 

Until black plays the Benoni, Benko, Grunfeld, Budapest, KID, some accepted lines....

There are sharp openings in either e4 or d4.

Avatar of TwoMove

You can play g3 based lines against the Sveshnikov. For example,  Short has played it. http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1085959.

It is also decent against the Taimanov 1.e4 c5 2Nf3 e6 3d4 pxp 4Nxp Nc6, Fischer and Adams have played it, for example. Not so effective against the Kan 4...a6. 

Another fairly universal approach is be2.

Avatar of Sarozen
TwoMove wrote:

You can play g3 based lines against the Sveshnikov. For example,  Short has played it. http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1085959.

It is also decent against the Taimanov 1.e4 c5 2Nf3 e6 3d4 pxp 4Nxp Nc6, Fischer and Adams have played it, for example. Not so effective against the Kan 4...a6. 

Another fairly universal approach is be2.

 

I do like the Be2 lines as well. They are solid and yet provide an small advantage too. 

 

What I like about the g3 lines is that is much less well known and has the potential of getting black out of their comfort zone. 

Avatar of Amplebeee
i dont like the sicillian much either. it takes wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too long to study .
Avatar of yureesystem
Sarogar wrote:

Thank you @yureesystem. I have been looking for a line against the Sveshn. I will try this Nd5 idea out. 

 

 

 You are welcome, I hope some these games help give you some ideas to play against sicilian.

Avatar of yureesystem
TwoMove wrote:

The position after 13Re1 in the last g3 schevengen game, is well-known with over 200 master games on live chessbase. Most FIDE 2600+ players play 13...Rae8, or 13...Nd7. 13...Rf-e8 doesn't make much sense if intending playing f5 later. 

 

 

 Unlike op, I don't think 6.g3 ( Fianchetto variation) refute the sicilian: I understand otb game even strong player make mistake and don't play their best, we must consider even IMs and GMs are human and make mistakes or even blunder badly. I have two system against Sicilian, its a hard defense to win against, I have try the close variation and KIA, I don't feel it gives enough pressure for an advantage, 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.g3 the close I won a lot beautiful games, but in chess club your opponent prepared for you if played same opening; this force me to play 1.e4 and 1.d4, I have many line for 1.e4 e5 and in the Petrov I have a very danger line, I have won every game with this line 1.e4 e5 Nf3 Nf6 3.d4! this Steinitz line and if white plays correctly black is uncomfortable throughout the game,  a lot time it leads to blunder below master level. In otb game there is no data game base and a player is on its own; most my online games is experiment to see what works, so I use it on my otb game, I hope to get to 2100 uscf and 2000 FIDE rating and possibly higher. One my experiment to my surprise is the Lion Defense and Modern defense its quite effective against low rated players, I have score quick wins here because of its tactical nature.

Avatar of Sarozen
yureesystem wrote:
TwoMove wrote:

The position after 13Re1 in the last g3 schevengen game, is well-known with over 200 master games on live chessbase. Most FIDE 2600+ players play 13...Rae8, or 13...Nd7. 13...Rf-e8 doesn't make much sense if intending playing f5 later. 

 

 

 Unlike op, I don't think 6.g3 ( Fianchetto variation) refute the sicilian: I understand otb game even strong player make mistake and don't play their best, we must consider even IMs and GMs are human and make mistakes or even blunder badly. I have two system against Sicilian, its a hard defense to win against, I have try the close variation and KIA, I don't feel it gives enough pressure for an advantage, 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.g3 the close I won a lot beautiful games, but in chess club your opponent prepared for you if played same opening; this force me to play 1.e4 and 1.d4, I have many line for 1.e4 e5 and in the Petrov I have a very danger line, I have won every game with this line 1.e4 e5 Nf3 Nf6 3.d4! this Steinitz line and if white plays correctly black is uncomfortable throughout the game,  a lot time it leads to blunder below master level. In otb game there is no data game base and a player is on its own; most my online games is experiment to see what works, so I use it on my otb game, I hope to get to 2100 uscf and 2000 FIDE rating and possibly higher. One my experiment to my surprise is the Lion Defense and Modern defense its quite effective against low rated players, I have score quick wins here because of its tactical nature.

 

Yes. I use to play the Rossolimo (which is nice to get black out of his familiar sicilian territory. Also, why i like the g3 system, but less so). I'll take a look at your Petroff line.

I use to play the Modern vs d4. I had good results with it. I usually got KID lines with a tempo up.

Avatar of Optimissed

I play the 2. ...a6 Sicilian on the theory that whatever an opponent tries to take me out of what I want to play and upset my game, I'm going to understand more about the position tha he does and if I'm on form I'm still going to win. Most perceptive opponents understand all that so they play 3.d4, of course, on the same theory.

Avatar of yureesystem
Sarogar wrote:
yureesystem wrote:
TwoMove wrote:

The position after 13Re1 in the last g3 schevengen game, is well-known with over 200 master games on live chessbase. Most FIDE 2600+ players play 13...Rae8, or 13...Nd7. 13...Rf-e8 doesn't make much sense if intending playing f5 later. 

 

 

 Unlike op, I don't think 6.g3 ( Fianchetto variation) refute the sicilian: I understand otb game even strong player make mistake and don't play their best, we must consider even IMs and GMs are human and make mistakes or even blunder badly. I have two system against Sicilian, its a hard defense to win against, I have try the close variation and KIA, I don't feel it gives enough pressure for an advantage, 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.g3 the close I won a lot beautiful games, but in chess club your opponent prepared for you if played same opening; this force me to play 1.e4 and 1.d4, I have many line for 1.e4 e5 and in the Petrov I have a very danger line, I have won every game with this line 1.e4 e5 Nf3 Nf6 3.d4! this Steinitz line and if white plays correctly black is uncomfortable throughout the game,  a lot time it leads to blunder below master level. In otb game there is no data game base and a player is on its own; most my online games is experiment to see what works, so I use it on my otb game, I hope to get to 2100 uscf and 2000 FIDE rating and possibly higher. One my experiment to my surprise is the Lion Defense and Modern defense its quite effective against low rated players, I have score quick wins here because of its tactical nature.

 

Yes. I use to play the Rossolimo (which is nice to get black out of his familiar sicilian territory. Also, why i like the g3 system, but less so). I'll take a look at your Petroff line.

I use to play the Modern vs d4. I had good results with it. I usually got KID lines with a tempo up.

 

 

 

 I also like the Rossolimo 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb4 or the Moscow 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bb5+; might go back to them. I also play the Modern against 1.d4, I love KID against any strength.

Avatar of mrbob8717

 those king side pawns tho

Avatar of Optimissed

<<The Morra ends this discussion. Top elite players decline with the Alapin. The Sicilian is rapidly becoming out dated.>>

If so it's just a fashion. I personally find the Nf6 reply to the Alapin boring and drawish. White gets to exert steady pressure though. Accepting the Smith Morra is better imo.