Weird Sicilian Capers

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Silasofsherwood

Hey all. I've been studying the Sicilian and have been reaching two specific positions in my (low level) blitz games. It seems pretty obvious that people playing these moves are just working off of instinct, so I'm curious if there is a best line of response, that could possibly punish these two strange aproaches white takes.

First, can black force an open Sicilian? I have played a lot of games where white opts for this position, or one very similar and it is theoretically vexing. The biggest problem is, that it often transposes into an open sicilian shortly after all minor pieces have come out, it's as if white notices the idea a handful of moves late. What is black's best line(s) of response?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Second is a bold attempt at an Italian or possible fried liver setup. I have no idea how to play a good sicilian against this. Of course, I've learned what to do and what not to do, but based on Sicilian opening theory, what is black's best line of response?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I appreciate any examples, or ideas anyone has to contribute.

Ziggy_Zugzwang

I would say that in the first position white has given up his birthright of the first move. It's a closed position where black can make natural developing moves and advance on the queenside with his pawns.I already prefer black here.

The second postion is not essentially bad, from memory a few GMs may have played this to get out of the books. Vague recollection of Carlsen and McShane playing this type of thing. Here white's bishop could be a target of black's queenside pawns and a prepared d5 advance, prefaced by e6 say.

Robert_New_Alekhine

Of course the line in your second diagram is possibly playable, but Ng5 is out of order there; black just play e6 and wins a tempo.

Silasofsherwood

Your comments are much appreciated! Thanks guys. I'll make sure to keep it natural and not get stressed about the closed. Now I know that e6 is an acceptable move here for the second diagram, I'll play that and go for a Sceveningen sort of setup.
Thanks! 

toiyabe

Why do so many noobs always play Bc4 on this site no matter what the opening is?  I suck at chess as well, but even 30 seconds of chess study is enough to move past the "High School variation".  It makes me feel even shittier knowing that some of these scrubs have the same rating as me.  sigh 

toiyabe
Silasofsherwood wrote:

Your comments are much appreciated! Thanks guys. I'll make sure to keep it natural and not get stressed about the closed. Now I know that e6 is an acceptable move here for the second diagram, I'll play that and go for a Najdorf setup.
Thanks! 

After ...e6 you are already out of Najdorf territory, the ...a6 move doesn't define the Najdorf, ...e5 does.  Just nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking Tongue OutWink

The only time ...e6 is generally played in true Najdorf lines is the Bg5 insanity, but anyone playing Bc4 has no idea what that even is, so irrelevant...

Oraoradeki

Oh dear the stupid Bc4 Sicilians...

The best way to counter these crap is to get in the mindset to not immidiately "punish" these moves. Just be patient, (you might have to make a pawn wall on c5, d6, e6 if necessary) and soon enough you will be able to get a position qhere White squandered his first move advantage. That being said, I advise against a quick ...e6, ...d5 idea, as it might get you into tricky positions if you are not ready.



Silasofsherwood
Fixing_A_Hole wrote:
Silasofsherwood wrote:

Your comments are much appreciated! Thanks guys. I'll make sure to keep it natural and not get stressed about the closed. Now I know that e6 is an acceptable move here for the second diagram, I'll play that and go for a Najdorf setup.
Thanks! 

After ...e6 you are already out of Najdorf territory, the ...a6 move doesn't define the Najdorf, ...e5 does.  Just nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking 

The only time ...e6 is generally played in true Najdorf lines is the Bg5 insanity, but anyone playing Bc4 has no idea what that even is, so irrelevant...

I get what you are saying F.A.H, I don't have access to a lot of Sicilian related material, I was studying the Paulson scheveningen and getting it confused with the Najdorf, big mistake obviously. I won't be making it again.
I agree with what you are saying 100%, I don't understand why this is a go-to move for people who don't know openings. 

Silasofsherwood

Oraoradeki,
I like your idea. I haven't been playing a lot of accelerated dragons lately, as I love the discovered attacks that can be used in the classic (on unsuspecting people who have never played the opening) I think your ideas could be adapted though?