What I should play against Scotch?

Again, I'm not playing 1.e4, but, by just following some basic chess principles 5. Bb5 followed by 0-0 comes to mind.

That's understandable. Some very sound advice has been posted here by a number of people. But if you want a simple, easy way to play this opening, I suggest you try playing with g6 and Bg7. Play a dozen or more games this way. Experiment with different ideas. Try to get a feel for what works for you.

@xman :

your evaluation in final position is probably a bit optimistic for black, let's say it is equal but did u really read my post with my comments above?

As I said, if Nd4 move, the problem is Bxe. So in your game, 6.Nxc6? (really bad) Bxe3! (simple) forcing fxe3 then u will retake the c6 knight.

What a nice structure for white, and here we can really quote you :

"If you reach a position like this as black, you should be really happy. This is NOT what white signed up for when he played the scotch."

But of course, nobody (or almost) would play that (at least it never happenned to me, even when i was a child...), white will continue either c3 or the blumenfeld attack (Nb5) which seems dubious but poses many practical problems.

If white wants to play Nxc6, it is only on move 5 :

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 Bc5 5.Nxc6 : no there is no intermezzo Bxe3 and anyway Qd8 is attacked. Black usually answers 5...Qf6 forcing white to protect f2 (Qd2, Qf3, Qe2 are all playable but not f3 which weakens too much the white position), but u can also play simple with 5...dxc6.

Pfren, whst do you think about Steinitz variation?

Actually 5...bxc6 is currently quite popular at the highest level. here's a recent game where Black got a fine position, and was outplayed much later, in the middlegame.

The Stenitz? Definitely playable in blitz, and rapid, and that's all.

 

Whoever is fond playing THIS as Black, is clearly braver than I am (and 10.Bg5 is not the only move to probe Black's audacious idea).

Interesting, I saw your post with c3, but I thought that was more of a theoretical titled player move because I've never seen that at my level. White usually gives up and starts trading pieces. I did acknowledge some more creative plays by white by saying it wasn't the only move though.

The reasoning of players around my level is that after c3, white can't play Nc3. So already, white has made a concession in terms of the attacking/complicated game he had hoped for.

I don't think my evaluation for black was too optimistic. I didn't claim that black had equalized, I just claimed that players who play the scotch are usually dissapointed to see a boring midlegame with bishop + knight traded off the board and no tension in the center. I certainly play a different move order to avoid variations like that.

I don't mean "this isn't what white signed up for" as in he is in a bad position, or has even lost his advantage. I literally mean that by playing 3: d4, he was hoping to get a position like this:

And instead got this position:

It's true that white could be a very mature player who understands all the lines and plays the scotch for the scotch, not for some fantasy attacking game. But as a 1400 rated scotch player myself, I would say that that's not usually the case.

Thank you. Definitely only as a "surprise weapon" and nothing more. :)

Dear Chamatistick,

The Scotch is a very interesting opening. I believe it used to be a lot less popular until Garry Kasparov reignited it. I looked at your game and I think I can help you a little bit.

You played the move 3...Nf6. This move develops a piece, get's one step closer to castling and attacks the center.

But it's not a strong move. 3...exd4 is a stronger move, even though it brings your opponents knight to the center and doesn't develop a piece. I will explain why. It will take some time because I will try to donit very methodically and I love explaining things. I hope you will enjoy reading it.

Remember, why did you, on move 1, play pawn e5? You did it to take control over d4 (and f4, but that's not a center square so less important!). And also did it because it opens up your dark squared bishop. e5 is a very strong move.

But if we want to take control over d4, we could have also played 1...Nc6. This is definitely also a valid move, but it has a downside compared to 1...e5. It is because pawns have an advantage over knights that you must never forget: they're worth less! Because of this they can never be chased around, they can be gambited, and they can usually capture another pawn without losing material. If you capture a defended pawn with a knight, you lose your knight!! But if you do it with a pawn, you're making a trade!

So what has ALL of this to do with your game? The advantage of the move e5 is that it prevents white from getting two pawns in the center very easily because you can always exchange. White can only get a pawn in the center by means of preparation with c3. However this takes him some time. So when white puts a pawn on d4 without having prepared with c3, you don't have to think very long! You can capture it! Even if it is defended by 6 different pieces!! Okay sometimes there are exceptions, but the reason you put if there is to capture on d4 if white does NOT prepare by means of c3.

So that's why the move 3...exd4 is a stronger move. Even though it brings your opponents knight to the center, even though it does not develop a piece, and even though you won't have an e-pawn in the center anymore after that (although you do get an half open e-file).

Have a nice day!
Fireline11

Or, more simply put, Ben Finegold's rule:

"Always play exd4."

Less formally stated:

"The reason why you moved your pawn to e5 is so that if white plays a pawn to d4 you can take it."

Just for the record, I never played the Steinitz, and I was teasing him with d4 in the Petroff since I'm not playing 1.e4 either, I think it was only in the Caro-Kann actually, once, and in some blitz games, an opening I'm playing from time to time, but even there I got better results with Bf5, but I'm not saying any Steinitz is any worse, it is just the way it is, sunny.  Funny isn't it, and some people are full of s**t, but there's really nothing I can do about it.

But in if white has c3 played taking it is like trading your e pawn for white's c pawn and that's usually not very good.(unless it you have to do it because you lose your e pawn otherwise for example)

Either - d5 (  Ljubojevic - Portisch ½-½ ) or Nf6 ( Hou - Carlsen 0-1, Ponziani) - for reference.

Thanks!

How about stating the obvious.