What opening is this?

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GSlowik

I started playing this opening today and I am curious to what it is called. I enjoy using it and I would like to put some research into it.


This opening does change depending on the opponents attack on the pieces. I noticed in my games that it seems to work better when playing black than when playing white. I posted a general idea of the opening. Black's opening was just a basic opening in this example. Others suggested it is a variation of the english opening but I want to check if there is any knowledge about it.

9thEagle

Yes, I would think it works better for black . . . what on earth is that knight doing there? Do you need a response for the wierd knight move? Or are you trying to justify it?

But yes, everything under 1.c4 is the English (although obviously transpositions can occur, especially to some QG lines). This doesn't look like any transposition . . . it doesn't look very good either. You can go to chesstempo.com, click on chess database-->chess openings--> and click on any random opening. It will pop up with a that opening, but you can hit the back button. If you hit "back" to a blank board, you can make your own moves, and it will show up most common opponent responses. I saw 0 times Na3 being played.

GSlowik

Na3 protects the c4 pawn and creates a powerful queenside attack later in the game if it goes right. usually in the game the opponent will sac the bishop for my knight and I gave a advantage in the diagonals. I do the knight move every time I play this opening.

GSlowik

This is a diagram showing it froms black's position. this is a played out version showing a few moves, a version I have played against several times. Has anyone ever seen something like this before?



NimzoRoy

A Knight on the rim is grim - Old Chess Saying

Congratulations! There are no games with your lines as White or Black here in the Game Explorer (about 500,000 MASTER games) and my CB BIG DB 2013 with 5.5 million games has 3 games with your "Gimpalersan Variation" of the SD, and none with the "Gimpalersan Opening" as White. Are you beginning to see a trend here?

GSlowik

Really? That is really surprising. I have played several games with this opening at my school in our chess club and I have won most of the games using it. The knight on the rim is a protective knight and bait for white. I want to lure the white squared bishop out and trade it for the knight early on usually. This opening gives a powerful diagonal attack on the queenside and if I can trade the knight pair for the bishop pair, white is going to have a bad time

mattyf9

Its called a horrible opening.

GSlowik

This is a defensive strategy, not a powerful offense. I want white to be provoked and trip over a landmine. Those pawns allow for my pieces to become more mobile on the queenside and both pawns are protected by pieces. Ridding white of the chance to develop their white bishop is well worth the knight and white almost always will go for the trade. 

Scottrf
jempty_method wrote:
Oran_perrett wrote:

terrible opening. develop a knight to a useless square where the undeveloped bishop can be traded for the developed knight thus winning a tempo and creating doubled rook pawns

Wrong!  (If you are referring to: http://www.chess.com/opening/eco/A40_Caro_Kann_Defense_De_Bruycker_Defense) 3. Bxa6?! Qa5+ and White has given up the bishop pair and Black's pawns don't get doubled when Black recaptures 4...Qxa6.  Furthermore Black's seemingly misplaced queen does make it slightly problematic for White to castle: for instance he might have to develop his knight slightly less actively with Nge2 instead of Nf3

But he wasn't, he was referring to this position, where the queen doesn't have a check.

Scottrf

Yeah probably, I've never seen it.

There are a number of openings where a knight is developed to the rim in the opening and it's not thought of as bad: Flohr variation of the CK, mainline Ruy etc.  Sometimes moving a piece several times in the opening is fine: The knight going c1-d2-f1-g3 in the Ruy or French exchange for e.g. It's obviously all about the exact position and your plans.

GSlowik

So basically no one remembers ever seeing it or they think it is terrible. Thank you scottrf, I agree with you. Now I have to do some research and study of it myself, see what else I can do with it. It would be interesting to see some master's opinions on it though. Thank you for your input Jempty, you are really helpful.

Scottrf
Gimpalersan wrote:

So basically no one remembers ever seeing it or they think it is terrible. Thank you scottrf, I agree with you. Now I have to do some research and study of it myself, see what else I can do with it. It would be interesting to see some master's opinions on it though. Thank you for your input Jempty, you are really helpful.

Oh, I was referring to jempty's opening then. 2. Na3 in your I think probably is bad. I'm no expert, and I don't play flank openings but:



GSlowik

Scottrf, this opening develops a queenside attack. The opponent will castle kingside in the diagram you showed, on the same side you are attacking, making their king more vulnerable. And I would not play Nf3. I would push the kingpawn up and open the white diagonal.

Scottrf

With e4 you're making a mighty hole on d4. Not only will blacks development be comfortable but white's position will be full of weaknesses.

alain978

Looks like the same line of Durkin opening with moves 1 & 2 reversed - 1-Na3, e5  2-c4, Nf6. Or with black the Lemming defense - 1-e5, Na6  2-Nf3, c5

GSlowik

Thank you alain. That was the kind of answer I was looking for.

Bill_C

Sometimes I have seen the Na3 move after a4 is played and the c4 English move has been the starting point. Since many lines in the English are positional (especially if I play them, LOL), the move would not be bad if it had a purpose.

So if c4 is played then Na3, i would assume the Knight is going to c2 and that White would play here to try to mix things up with a later d4, especially if it a line where White has played e3 at one point. As to whether this would normally happen in a series of games or not, I have no clue as when I play the rare English opening (meaning i rarely play it anymore), The Queen Knight will be on c3.

The other thing that White might be able try with this would be to support b4 if say the White move order (omitting Black's replies is something like 1. c4 2. Na3. 3.Nc2 4. Nf3 5. g3 6. g2 7. 0-0 8. a3 and 9. b4 and now you have a normal English with two small differences. 1. The King knight is on f3 instead of c2 via e1 as in the King side expansion play of f2-f4-f5 and the Queen Knight is there instead and 2. White has erected the pawn system that plays to the Queenside about 2 moves earlier than in some mainline games. Here it would seem that White plans to hold the center as long as possible and play on the wings, daring Black to try to undermine the position.

Mind you though, I have not played the English as White for perhaps 10-15 years so I may be mistaken in some of my ideas here as well so do not hold me to this. Scott, does this sound about right or am i missing some key move? I have seen some English games where the Knights have been on c2 and e2 to overprotect d4 and give White a chance to get the g2 Bishop active on f4 and if exf4 the e5 with a discovered attack on the Rook.

TBH, I would think this would be some amateur/club or coffeehouse opening rather than a serious attempt at reinventing the wheel here.

GSlowik

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to invent an opening. And this is meant to be played as black, not white. I made this post to try and find out what the opening is called or if there are any lines or games I could study where it was played. Unfortunately, it seems unpopular and disliked.

I am in an amateur club by the way.

InfiniteFlash

well theres one opening in which na3 stuff is okay. This opening was popularized by a russian GM,  a totally legitimate opening, = but with fair chances for both sides.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vadim_Zvjaginsev

 



AndyClifton
Gimpalersan wrote:

It would be interesting to see some master's opinions on it though.

Okay, here's one:  it's lame.