What to do against the annoying Triangle/Noteboom move order?

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ghostofmaroczy
ghostofmaroczy wrote:
rowsweep wrote:

why is it called the note boom

Ahem!

Abrahams is asking the same question.

Walter_von_Entferndt
rowsweep hat geschrieben:

why is it called the note boom

Because a note was found in the late Petrosjan's dacha on how to defend the QGD xchg for black, but it was illegibly scribbled.  All that was readable was a "Boom!" after the final black winning combination.

ghostofmaroczy
Walter_von_Entferndt wrote:
rowsweep hat geschrieben:

why is it called the note boom

Because a note was found in the late Petrosjan's dacha on how to defend the QGD xchg for black, but it was illegibly scribbled.  All that was readable was a "Boom!" after the final black winning combination.

1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 c6 4 Nf3 dxc4 5 a4 Bb4 6 e3 b5 7 Bd2 a5 Boom!

Signed,

Florencio

SmyslovFan

Joking aside, Noteboom deserves to be remembered:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dani%C3%ABl_Noteboom

Till_98

simple solution: buy a triangle and play some sounds...

rowsweep

i guess the semi slav and the noteboom are the same thing.

because both do dxc4

ozzie_c_cobblepot

+1 to the 4.e4 dxe4 5.Nxe4 Bb4+ 6.Nc3 recommendation.

It's in the "hey it's a game" frame of thinking. Plus, didn't Carlsen play this way against Anand maybe?

Walter_von_Entferndt
rowsweep hat geschrieben:

i guess the semi slav and the noteboom are the same thing.

because both do dxc4

I'd suggest you focus on middlegame plans and don't worry about opening names and what moves your opponent plays.  Just pick s/th you like...

Walter_von_Entferndt
rdecredico hat geschrieben:
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:

+1 to the 4.e4 dxe4 5.Nxe4 Bb4+ 6.Nc3 recommendation. [...]

Theroertically very good for Black.  Kaufman had this line in his latest book but since its publication serious improvements have been found for Black in this line that leave us at =/+

Could you show us some lines about these improvements?  All I can find in the DB is 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c6 4.e4 dxe4 5.Nxe4 Bb4+ 6.Nc3 Nf6 7.Nf3 c5 8.Be2 Nc6 9.Be3 Ne4 10.Rc1 cxd4 Why is this =+?

Till_98

yes pfren. Trollbase 2.0 reloaded

SilentKnighte5

In the notes to game 10.1, Kaufman recommends 4. e4 as a way to avoid transposing to the Semi-Slav, although that's not part of his repertoire.

SilentKnighte5
Walter_von_Entferndt

SilentKnighte5 wrote: "1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c6 4.e4 dxe4 5.Nxe4 Bb4+ 6.Nc3 c5 7.a3 Ba5 8.Be3 Nf6 9.Ne2 cxd4 10.Qxd4 Qxd4"
now 11.Bxd4 to avoid the double pawn after
11.Nxd4 Bxc3+ 12.bxc3Probably 4...dxc4 followed by ...b5, ...a6, ...Bb7 is stronger for black here (leads to =)?  See also posting #49.  My feeling tells me 4.e4 is too ambitious.

SilentKnighte5

Kaufman specifically recommends 11. Nxd4 based on the engine analysis.

 

"humans take back with the bishop to avoid ruined pawns, but the computer says I want the bishop pair and development.  Komodo insists that the bishop pair, Black's bad bishop and White's superior development more than offset his bad pawns.  While I disagree with Komodo's claim that White is substantially better, I would choose White if given the choice here".

lolurspammed

Isn't it true that the exchange QGD has provided EXCELLENT results for white and enters a line that has supposedly the biggest opening advantage of any modern opening? I've played it a few times and have recieved fantastic positions as white, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is true. 

TwoMove

The simple answer to that is no. Black is playing classical chess putting pawn in centre, and developing. So if losing playing this chess is solved. White can learn plans to try put black under pressure, and get an understanding of the position. This is a bit more than the typical "play by numbers" approach popular here. Of course, black can learn counter-plans. The carlbad structure just isn't an automatic white advantage. 

SmyslovFan

That's kind of what Ozzie was getting at. It's a chess game. The winner of such a position will be the one who understands the plans better. Isn't that what we want out of an opening?

Walter_von_Entferndt
lolurspammed hat geschrieben:

Isn't it true that the exchange QGD has provided EXCELLENT results for white and enters a line that has supposedly the biggest opening advantage of any modern opening? I've played it a few times and have recieved fantastic positions as white, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is true. 

Well, you get what your opponent gives you...  On those "excellent results" you will see that with every white superior move (by result numbers in a DB), black has an answer that will get him back into the game.  Try it out yourself, narrow the search to masters 2400+, filter out games <30 moves, then you'll come to results that are not better than the advantage to have the 1st move.  Additionally, the total number of games played is small, so there's no statistical evidence yet.

P.S. Thank you to pfren for the instructive game above.

lolurspammed

I know engines aren't thrilled with it, but in human practice it is very good for white. Then again, engines rarely like main line openings. You pretty much need to FORCE them to play main lines. 

SilentKnighte5

QGD: Exchange has been an extremely good weapon for me at the class level.  I've seen 1800s completely unable to handle the Black side.