The Ruy Lopez is just deeper. The Italian is recommended because it's a tactically rich environment for both sides and it follows all the opening guidelines. You could say the same about the Ruy I suppose, but it seems more positional, and frankly, complicated. Hopefully someone who actually knows what they're talking about will weigh in...
?Why is the Italian good for novice ?
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In the Italian game, the bishop as you can see has been placed on c4 eying the a2-g8 diagonal through the f7 pawn and that means white combined with the other pieces can create early tactics on the blacks king side. There are many openings where white use this Bc4 move early on to create tactics not only the Italian.
In the Spanish , the Bishop placed on b5 to put pressure on the e5 pawn since the c6 knight is the only defender until the rest of the pieces mobilized. It's a more positional approach from white to gain an advantage compare to the Italian but imo a beginner should play both!
I can't find reasons why not.
The Spanish is far too advanced for most chess players, let alone beginners. I wouldn't know where to start with the Spanish, and I doubt that I'm the level of player that you're referring to. The Italian is much more straightforward. You might actually understand some of the moves that you're making... That is rather helpful, not so much in winning the game, but very much so in improving.
Spanish = way too compliacted, you won't understand any of the moves you're making. Italian = simple, "novice" level of understanding required for most things.
Game of Pawns @
When you learn a opening , you don't get familiar only with the moves but to understand the IDEAS behind the moves is what matter most!
No one said to start play the Spanish or the Italian like an advance player knowing exactly what you do, but you will never learn how to drive the car until you get your self in to. I assure you that the Italian game is far away complicated and you are the one who haven't realize. The main line of the Italian game is 30 moves of theory and I doubt if you know this. So I repeat my self that a beginner should play both as enough to read and learn the theory so to develop his understanding about the opening, either wise what ever he decide to open its useless.
g5 is talking crap as he has done on other threads. The Spanish is far too complex for the level of player under the microscope here. I am talking about the ideas, plan and individual moves and just about evetything else, even if the idiot g5 didn't understand that. The italian has simple ideas and makes far more sense for a "novice" to play.
Please stop spamming, you have made many forums with the same title.
The italian is a good opening but it is hard to find a good plan for low level players after the opening.
The ruy lopez on the other hand is a dynamic opening that works and helps you learn all of the forms of the game, and works from novice to master.
Here is a short Video you can watch to try and understand from a National Master the differences of the Ruy Lopez vs Italian Game.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hriSNXPkIA
It really isn't that bad of a video. He does pretty good in explaining things.
This video is a little out dated though. Other lines have been playing alot more lately. However, It will give you a brief idea on the differences.
I have played the Ruy Lopez and the Italian game quiet often. Since I started chess in fact.
They both have similar long term idea's of playing a d4 pawn push one day.
The Ruy Lopez often ends up doing it alot quicker so to speak than the Italian Game. Which often results in alot of complications.
The Italian Game in truth is pretty simple line for beginners.
It can teach you solid chess playing techinque.
- Developing pieces
- Attacking the Center
- Castling
These small things are often over looked by beginners.
It also has very simple plans and the theory in most of the lines are not that long. Making it easier for beginners to play.
If you wish to learn more about the Italian Game. You can check out the below video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gX4to7ly1Y&index=29&list=PLPaM3qJ0ieXsZkPDAwkiT4jtV5MWGQXEI
X_PLAYER_J_X wrote:
Here is a short Video you can watch to try and understand from a National Master the differences of the Ruy Lopez vs Italian Game.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hriSNXPkIA
It really isn't that bad of a video. He does pretty good in explaining things.
This video is a little out dated though. Other lines have been playing alot more lately. However, It will give you a brief idea on the differences.
I have played the Ruy Lopez and the Italian game quiet often. Since I started chess in fact.
They both have similar long term idea's of playing a d4 pawn push one day.
The Ruy Lopez often ends up doing it alot quicker so to speak than the Italian Game. Which often results in alot of complications.
The Italian Game in truth is pretty simple line for beginners.
It can teach you solid chess playing techinque.
Developing pieces Attacking the Center CastlingThese small things are often over looked by beginners.
It also has very simple plans and the theory in most of the lines are not that long. Making it easier for beginners to play.
If you wish to learn more about the Italian Game. You can check out the below video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gX4to7ly1Y&index=29&list=PLPaM3qJ0ieXsZkPDAwkiT4jtV5MWGQXEI
Hey, that's cool. Dereque plays at the same chess club as myself. I didn't know he made these videos.
Fiveofswords wrote:
X_PLAYER_J_X wrote:
Here is a short Video you can watch to try and understand from a National Master the differences of the Ruy Lopez vs Italian Game.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hriSNXPkIA
It really isn't that bad of a video. He does pretty good in explaining things.
This video is a little out dated though. Other lines have been playing alot more lately. However, It will give you a brief idea on the differences.
I have played the Ruy Lopez and the Italian game quiet often. Since I started chess in fact.
They both have similar long term idea's of playing a d4 pawn push one day.
The Ruy Lopez often ends up doing it alot quicker so to speak than the Italian Game. Which often results in alot of complications.
The Italian Game in truth is pretty simple line for beginners.
It can teach you solid chess playing techinque.
Developing pieces Attacking the Center CastlingThese small things are often over looked by beginners.
It also has very simple plans and the theory in most of the lines are not that long. Making it easier for beginners to play.
If you wish to learn more about the Italian Game. You can check out the below video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gX4to7ly1Y&index=29&list=PLPaM3qJ0ieXsZkPDAwkiT4jtV5MWGQXEI
its utterly ridiculous. He ignored the more typical classical approach of the italian....but focused instead on playing the italian as if it were a tempo down ruy lopez...which obviously forces an unfavorable comparison to the ruy lopez.. Nxe4 is, as we know, quite playable in the ruy lopez...but white can save a tempo on his d4 plan by allowing it. but in fact d3 is often played today in the ruy to avoid the berlin...and you get a situation extremely similar to his itlanian ruy lopez.
he ignored 4 ng5...and ignored 4 d4. Both are perfectly good moves which take advantage of the superior place on c4 for the bishop
Interestingly enough, Dereque actually plays 3...Nf6 against the Italian so he sees 4.Ng5 quite a bit. Not that that takes anything away from what you're saying.
Fiveofswords wrote:
Arawn_of_Annuvin wrote:
Fiveofswords wrote:
X_PLAYER_J_X wrote:
Here is a short Video you can watch to try and understand from a National Master the differences of the Ruy Lopez vs Italian Game.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hriSNXPkIA
It really isn't that bad of a video. He does pretty good in explaining things.
This video is a little out dated though. Other lines have been playing alot more lately. However, It will give you a brief idea on the differences.
I have played the Ruy Lopez and the Italian game quiet often. Since I started chess in fact.
They both have similar long term idea's of playing a d4 pawn push one day.
The Ruy Lopez often ends up doing it alot quicker so to speak than the Italian Game. Which often results in alot of complications.
The Italian Game in truth is pretty simple line for beginners.
It can teach you solid chess playing techinque.
Developing pieces Attacking the Center CastlingThese small things are often over looked by beginners.
It also has very simple plans and the theory in most of the lines are not that long. Making it easier for beginners to play.
If you wish to learn more about the Italian Game. You can check out the below video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gX4to7ly1Y&index=29&list=PLPaM3qJ0ieXsZkPDAwkiT4jtV5MWGQXEI
its utterly ridiculous. He ignored the more typical classical approach of the italian....but focused instead on playing the italian as if it were a tempo down ruy lopez...which obviously forces an unfavorable comparison to the ruy lopez.. Nxe4 is, as we know, quite playable in the ruy lopez...but white can save a tempo on his d4 plan by allowing it. but in fact d3 is often played today in the ruy to avoid the berlin...and you get a situation extremely similar to his itlanian ruy lopez.
he ignored 4 ng5...and ignored 4 d4. Both are perfectly good moves which take advantage of the superior place on c4 for the bishop
Interestingly enough, Dereque actually plays 3...Nf6 against the Italian so he sees 4.Ng5 quite a bit. Not that that takes anything away from what you're saying.
im sure he sees 4 ng5 a lot...which is why i dont understand why he ignored this in his video, instead comparing the italian to ruy by playing a less critical line of the italian, where it becomes like an anti berlin endgame ruy...but white also plays d3 for that so...yeah...really bad comparison.
if white plays bc4 he might as well use the fact the bishop is on c4 and do ng5 or d4. thats how i see it. There may be gm who do d3 but thats rather slow and not critical....and obviously you will end up being a tempo down from ruy lines where white decides not to worry about nxe4. SO if anything his argument would be against the decision to play d3 in the italian...not a comparison to the italian to ruy.
Yes. There are a couple of GMs who play 4.d3. They include: Hou Yifan, Wei Yi, Teimour Radjabov, Baadur Jobava, Maxime Vachier-Lagrave, Laurent Fressinet, Francisco Vallejo-Pons, Magnus Carlsen, Sergey Karjakin, Rustam Kasimdzhanov, and Vugar Gashimov.
Fiveofswords wrote:
i would assume that if these gms do play d3 then its because the position is not really a tempo down ruy. because such a outcome would really make your opening choice seem illogical and you would either stop playing the italian or stop playing d3. the guy in the video is suggesting it is a tempo down ruy. im not saying any of this :p im just mentioning that ng5 and d4 are consistent moves which cannot occur in a ruy...thus for that reason alone he cannot call the italian a tempo down ruy...thats all
NO NO NO FOS
I believe you are mixing up the lines my friend.
The only time black takes on e4 is if black plays the Berlin Defense move order.
Which is 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nf6
They do not take the pawn if the move 3...a6 has been played. Which is the mainline. It is a very subtle detail. However, it is also very important.
If they do play the move 3...a6 and than try taking on e4 little later it is considered very good for white. The move would than be d4 which is good move. The placement of the light square bishop on b5 is what the Berlin Defense is exploiting. If the bishop is on a4 there is no way to exploit that fact.
So the video is pretty good.
The truth is the Italian Game is 1 tempo down off of the Ruy Lopez.
However, The 1 tempo down makes it easier for white since they do not have any complications.
Which in the Ruy Lopez they try to save that tempo yet by saving it. It enters into the alot more complications such as worrying about Nxe4 in some defenses.
He also made another video which only talks about the Berlin Defense. LOL He had to make it in a video by itself because it really is complex.
Here is the video of the Berlin Defense.
You can see the subtle reasons behind it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWtDNFLQNHA
Wei Yi didn't knew this detail.
and Anish Giri forgot it completelly.
Aug 3, 2015
0
#15
D3 lines are the most interesting lines in the Guioco Piano. C3+ d4 lines are actually more drawish and boring than the "quiet" lines. And the Italian Gambit is only fun if black doesn't choose to immediately equalize with Nxe4.
Aug 3, 2015
0
#16
4.Ng5 is fine in theory but I would rather have black after 4..d5 every time. After 4.d3 I'll take either side.
Aug 3, 2015
0
#17
Neither. As black I don't like playing into drawish lines with Nxe4 when playing the two knights defense, but there isn't really a better choice imo. The max lange is fun but I would rather be white in the immediate fxg7 lines.
The Ruy is ok if White can take advantage of those a6-b5 advances by Black if not then then 3.Bc4 or the Scotch lines (including the gambit) might be beginner friendly as it opens up lines and develops pieces. However, I think the exchange Ruys (delayed var included) are also straightforward as it creates concrete inbalances from the beginning.
Well I honestly believe the move d3 is the Classical approach of the italian Game.
From my understanding d4 is considered the Moller Attack.
The Ng5 lines are kind of undefined.
They also have alot of names Fried liver Attack, Lolli Attack, even Na5 lines which I don't even have a clue what those line names are.
They are playable lines though.
Bishop_g5 wrote:
Wei Yi didn't knew this detail.
and Anish Giri forgot it completelly.
Your post does not prove anything.
My statement was correct. It was the same statement made by other GM's and a National Master who in the video I posted also said the same thing.
The fact you are showing 2 examples of a line which isn't considered good by GM's proves nothing.
The Kings Gambit is considered not so sound yet you still see GM who play it. You act as if it is a shock that a GM would play lines which are not that great to surpise there opponents.
I have already blocked you. I do not know why you feel compelled to talk to me. It is obvious you have no clue what you are even talking about. You have no moral compass. You are nothing more than an un-amusing troll.
Your troll-ish attempts are not even funny.
Why don't you google how many times Anish Giri plays this opening as black. It is obvious he doesn't play this opening often. He was simply trying to surpise his opponent.
Furthermore, The reason you have named yourself Bg5 is because the g5 square is a dark square. Which implys a Dark Bishop.
The implications of this is completely obvious. Your agruements are completely in the dark just like the Dark bishop you so proudly emulate.
Having a conversation with you is completely pointless because you are in the dark completely lost half of the time. Just like the dark bishop.
Just like the line of the Trompowsky attack the only useful function you have is exchanging yourself off because your such a useless piece.
Have a great day good bye.
I am a noob and I want to know why this is recommended and vs the Spanish what's the difference?