I just joined the thread. I guess I'm not a big fan of the Scandi. When I used to play 1. e4, I never really got challenged by the defense. But back to the original question of finding a comfortable defense to 1. e4, I have used the Petroff, the Sicilian Accelerated Dragon, and have in recent years gone back to the Caro Kann. Outside of a loss in a G/45 against an IM, though I played quite well, I have had very good success with the Caro - usually winning or drawing.
Why play the Modern ...Qd6 Scandinavian?
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bishopson wrote:
I just joined the thread. I guess I'm not a big fan of the Scandi. When I used to play 1. e4, I never really got challenged by the defense. But back to the original question of finding a comfortable defense to 1. e4, I have used the Petroff, the Sicilian Accelerated Dragon, and have in recent years gone back to the Caro Kann. Outside of a loss in a G/45 against an IM, though I played quite well, I have had very good success with the Caro - usually winning or drawing.
WoW
What variation do you use against 3.Nc3?
The Classical or something esle?
Nov 26, 2015
0
#24
Fiveofswords wrote:
when i was looking at options for 3rd moves for white vs the scandi i rmemeber i did consider nf3 but rejected it becuase of some particular line...cant remember the exact move order now...but it involved some irritating fast Bf5 Qe4 from black and seems to result in an annoyingly equal queenless middlegame.
IIRC the computer rates some of the main lines very close to 0.00
But I like them because white has an attack and black has only defense. I rate as very good practical chances (although it's hard when we're not looking at an actual position).
The lines I've prepared for, unfortunately haven't had the chance to play them OTB. Black has deviated every time, which I don't mind, because I think white gets a solid edge in those cases.
Fiveofswords wrote:
when i was looking at options for 3rd moves for white vs the scandi i rmemeber i did consider nf3 but rejected it becuase of some particular line...cant remember the exact move order now...but it involved some irritating fast Bf5 Qe4 from black and seems to result in an annoyingly equal queenless middlegame.
Well 3.Nf3 is a line vs the Scandi which I remember looking at which seemed to do well for white.
The problem was I never could remember all of the continuations very well.
The Scandi is not seen alot as it is and trying to remember those lines which happen once in a blue moon really never worked for me.
I know I looked over them with an engine and the engine liked white.
The line which I think was said to be blacks best continuation was a line were black played Nc6 - Bg4 - with an early queen side castle.
The engine I used long ago believe white had a +1 advantage.
Yeah the engine I used now believes the position is close to equal.
Yeah at move 6 the computer gave the critical move Qf5.
However, most humans play Qa5+, Qh5, and Qd7.
Which bascially means you would have to remember the lines to the human inaccuracy moves as well to exploit there mistake.
In the end I gave up on using that line because I realized it was to much work and there isn't enough Scandi players to warrant such an effort.
My teacher gives ...Bg4 against Nf3, with the idea of the immediate ...Nc6 and ...0-0-0.
Nov 26, 2015
0
#27
@X_PLAYER_J_X, I really don't understand your question to my comment, since I never played the Scandi. But yes, I did play 3. Nc3. As to what I played after that, it depended on what black played on their 3rd move. However, remember I have not played 1. e4 in nearly 10 years or more, so I am sure opening theory ahs developed quite a bit since then, so what I played 10 years ago may no longer be valid for today.
Fiveofswords wrote:
BirdBrain wrote:
My teacher gives ...Bg4 against Nf3, with the idea of the immediate ...Nc6 and ...0-0-0.
these 0-0-0 ideas seem pretty popular but im rather suspicious of them. what can be difficult for white usually in the scandi is that the black position is difficult to attack. but when black puts his king over there suddenly attacking him becomes very easy and natural. even the kingside with f7 can become sensitive...like there are ng5 ne4 manouvers. and even if black wins whites d pawn it often backfires with be3 attack on a7 stuff.
I play the 2...Nf6 Scandi which often transposes to this in the Portuguese declined variations, and what you're saying is completely true. Black's attempts to win a pawn usually end up being disastrous, and the queenside really is not a safe place for Black's king. However, if you're very accurate at deploying your pieces and developing efficiently on the kingside, you can get a dangerous attack of your own going if White makes mistakes, and you get sufficient counterplay if not. If Black slips up though (which is easy to do... it's easy to get mixed up depending on the subtle differences in White's various deployments), it'll find itself getting bombarded with zero counterplay.
Fiveofswords wrote:
BirdBrain wrote:
My teacher gives ...Bg4 against Nf3, with the idea of the immediate ...Nc6 and ...0-0-0.
these 0-0-0 ideas seem pretty popular but im rather suspicious of them. what can be difficult for white usually in the scandi is that the black position is difficult to attack. but when black puts his king over there suddenly attacking him becomes very easy and natural. even the kingside with f7 can become sensitive...like there are ng5 ne4 manouvers. and even if black wins whites d pawn it often backfires with be3 attack on a7 stuff.
I can agree that (at the moment) I am still a bit leary of the more aggressive ...Nc6 and ...0-0-0 ideas, I still need to get the hang of them. I do like the ...c6 stuff a lot, but I am certain that as I play the ideas a lot, I will get a better hang of them.
X_PLAYER_J_X a écrit :
Fiveofswords wrote:
when i was looking at options for 3rd moves for white vs the scandi i rmemeber i did consider nf3 but rejected it becuase of some particular line...cant remember the exact move order now...but it involved some irritating fast Bf5 Qe4 from black and seems to result in an annoyingly equal queenless middlegame.
Well 3.Nf3 is a line vs the Scandi which I remember looking at which seemed to do well for white.
The problem was I never could remember all of the continuations very well.
The Scandi is not seen alot as it is and trying to remember those lines which happen once in a blue moon really never worked for me.
I know I looked over them with an engine and the engine liked white.
The line which I think was said to be blacks best continuation was a line were black played Nc6 - Bg4 - with an early queen side castle.
The engine I used long ago believe white had a +1 advantage.
Yeah the engine I used now believes the position is close to equal.
Yeah at move 6 the computer gave the critical move Qf5.
However, most humans play Qa5+, Qh5, and Qd7.
Which bascially means you would have to remember the lines to the human inaccuracy moves as well to exploit there mistake.
In the end I gave up on using that line because I realized it was to much work and there isn't enough Scandi players to warrant such an effort.
The best move is 6.Be3, not c4.
Then the main line goes like this :
poucin wrote:
The best move is 6.Be3, not c4.
Then the main line goes like this :
Yeah in the line I am thinking of Be3 is played but I didn't know the move order.
Thank you for clearing that up.
Maybe that is were I was having confusion at.
I think this line is crushing the Scandi.
Ok so if we play the suggested move 6.Be3.
Than black has 6...e5 or 6...Nf6.
I think in high level both continuations are losing for black.
However, its to much to remember lol.
If 6...e5
Yeah if 6...e5 this line looks exactly like the game poucin showed.
It is the same moves.
If 6...Nf6
Than I think white had 2 lines which were good.
One is 7.0-0
However, the other one which I looked at was 7.c4
Yeah this is the position because black has 3 queen moves they have tryed.
Yet all 3 moves give advantage to white.
I looked it up on a engine again and it says on depth 27 white has advantage.
If black plays 7...Qa5+ the position reads +/= 0.40
If black plays 7...Qf5 or 7..Qh5 the position reads +/= 0.52
Most played move by high levels are 7...Qf5.
Yeah I don't know I think I will probably forget all of this again lol.
Considering I only see the Scandi 1 out of like 1,000 games.
I wonder how Grand Masters do it.
They probably have forgotten more variation analysis than most people have even studied.
Perhaps I am missing something.
Any Scandi player out there?
Who knows what the best way for black to continue is?
bishopson wrote:
@X_PLAYER_J_X, I really don't understand your question to my comment, since I never played the Scandi. But yes, I did play 3. Nc3. As to what I played after that, it depended on what black played on their 3rd move. However, remember I have not played 1. e4 in nearly 10 years or more, so I am sure opening theory ahs developed quite a bit since then, so what I played 10 years ago may no longer be valid for today.
On post #46 you was talking about the Caro-Kann.
I was asking you what do you play against mainline of the Caro-Kann which has 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4
Do you play the Classical variation with 4...Bf5?
or some other variation.
Nov 27, 2015
0
#33
@X-PLAYER_J_X, in the Caro Classical Variation I play 4...Bf5. Outside of one loss to an IM in August in a G/45 with no delay or add on time, I have done quite well in this line. I have found GM Schandorff's analysis quite helpful in the Classical Variation.
Ok, we are in the process of setting up our first team match. Come check out our group and explore the opening with us.
Peppinu wrote:
This is one of the most important positions of the whole Scandinavian as it can be achieved by various move orders. Black is ok, intending ...0-0-0, ...Qf5, and ...e5.
It finally comes together.
Now we understand why they play 5...Nf6 and not the move 5...0-0-0 right away!
HE HE HE
Peppinu wrote:
Yes, 5...Nf6 scores better for Black. 6.h3 is actually one of the best lines for White against this complex. After 6...Bxf3 7.Bxf3 the Queen has to go back to d7 and White keeps a little something.
Nov 29, 2015
0
#37
Chess Stars publisher has a new book expected to come out in January and it's going to be on the 3...Qd6 Scandinavian. It's titled The Safest Scandinavian and it says it's going to be a "repertoire", which probably means the book will tell the player with the black pieces exactly which moves to make in lines.
Peppinu, I took your idea and am using it, and enjoying it a lot! This is a game with the idea you mentioned:
This is a simple draw, but what I am liking is the ability to come into the middlegame with a super-solid position where I have flexibility as to how I want to proceed. These pawn structures don't reveal a lot as to what Black wants to do, and I enjoy that!
Nov 30, 2015
0
#39
Here's a link to the Chess Stars repertoire book on 3...Qd6 expected to be released in January:
http://www.chess-stars.com/Future_Plans.html
Karpov these guys are trying to play the Scandi.
What do you think about that?
I know it makes me laugh as well!
They are so funny!