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Did Bobby Fischer have Aspergers Syndrome?

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heinzie

I agree, a poor handwriting is a strong indicator of Asparaguslike fingers

orust
heinzie wrote:

I agree, a poor handwriting is an indicator of Aspergerlike fingers


In isolation it doesn't mean anything, and not all people with Asperger's have motor problems, but the more features of a syndrome you have, the more likely it is you have that syndrome, wouldn't you say?

heinzie

Fortunately, for chess it does not matter how "athletic" you can look while picking up a piece of plastic and putting it down two inches further

1pawndown

Very interesting question. Might explain much of Fischer's bizzare antics.

PeterHyatt

I think the original post is worthy of discussion, even point by point.  It's value is not limited to understanding Fischer, but understanding human nature, from its most dark aspects to its highest achievements.  

The rarity of this extreme is best exampled in one like Fischer.  

It is difficult to find someone who was so extreme in both.  

Discussion, point by point, of the original post, would be interesting, especially from those familiar with his life.  The HBO special was sad, and in the end, walking down the street, I could feel the frustration of the man attempting to reason with illogic.  

The damage done in the early years was immeasurable. 

fburton
echecs06 wrote:

No, but I know he hated brocoli!


What about Asparagus?

Conflagration_Planet

I heard there's strong evidence he had Ass Burgers syndrom along with Asparagus Fingers syndrome. So don't ever feed your kid asparagus or ground beef. 

TheOldReb

VLMJ

Trysts, if what you say Bobby said is correct wouldn't that possibly indicate that those words were words of a severely mentally ill person and such a condition is recognized by medical doctors and courts as indicating that that person should be treated medically for such a condition and not condemned for that illness.  I don't see any looniness in that.  Perhaps the loony aspect is in what you think and feel about someone who said things that he really couldn't be responsible for.  Couldn't you make a further case of what you originally said about Bobby Fischer without resorting to name calling and arguing ad hominem? 

trysts
VLMJ wrote:

Trysts, if what you say Bobby said is correct wouldn't that possibly indicate that those words were words of a severely mentally ill person and such a condition is recognized by medical doctors and courts as indicating that that person should be treated medically for such a condition and not condemned for that illness.  I don't see any looniness in that.  Perhaps the loony aspect is in what you think and feel about someone who said things that he really couldn't be responsible for.  Couldn't you make a further case of what you originally said about Bobby Fischer without resorting to name calling and arguing ad hominem? 


Mental illness seems like a strange judgement there. I actually give beloved Bobby credit for being a free-being, able to make his own judgements, choosing his own words to describe his own perspective. I think his own words are disagreeable to me, therefore I call him a jack ass. You, on the other hand, insult him even more than I ever can by saying his choices aren't his, his words are due to illness, and his perspective is uncontrollable. You seem to be participating in a deceptive ad hominem attack, that I am fully aware of, VLMJWink

Kittysafe

I think Fischer had far worse things than Assperger's, I'd say he was a paranoid schizophrenic perhaps... possibly an undiagnosed case.  

Thinking the Russians could read his mind through his teeth fillings, all those demands, never being satisfied, his exile, a profound amount of ethical concern, to the point of being pathological. 

After all his antics, his demands, his B.S., Fischer should never have won that match in '72, Spassky should have withdrawn. Fischer was acting in a way unbecoming a world champion.

raul72
Kittysafe wrote:

I think Fischer had far worse things than Assperger's, I'd say he was a paranoid schizophrenic perhaps... possibly an undiagnosed case.  

Thinking the Russians could read his mind through his teeth fillings, all those demands, never being satisfied, his exile, a profound amount of ethical concern, to the point of being pathological. 

After all his antics, his demands, his B.S., Fischer should never have won that match in '72, Spassky should have withdrawn. Fischer was acting in a way unbecoming a world champion.


 Well he wasn't the world champion during the match---he was the challenger.  I've said it before and I will say it again---Spassky was lucky to get off with the mauling he received considering the cheating the Russians committed on American chessplayers.

Lets look at Spassky---why didnt he pull up stakes and go home ?  Vanity---thy name is woman!  Spassky was ordered to come home by the powers that be in Russia and refused!  Vanity!   He said I am not going to grab my football and go home. I have a two-zip lead. I have never lost to this guy in my entire career. I am staying and I'm keeping my title the way it should be maintained---over the board.  Vanity!  He should have returned home with the title but we live and learn---and thats the name of that tune!

Elroch
raul72 wrote:

 Lets look at Spassky---why didnt he pull up stakes and go home ?  Vanity---thy name is woman!  Spassky was ordered to come home by the powers that be in Russia and refused!  Vanity!   He said I am not going to grab my football and go home. I have a two-zip lead. I have never lost to this guy in my entire career. I am staying and I'm keeping my title the way it should be maintained---over the board.  Vanity!  He should have returned home with the title but we live and learn---and thats the name of that tune!


You underestimate Spassky, imbuing him with faults of personality belonging to someone else (and indeed indicating you share one of those faults by stating that Spassky "should" have dodged the match). Based on the evidence of his actions and his statements before, during and after the match, Spassky had no interest in avoiding loss by dodging the match. He was there to play chess and accept the result. Which is one reason he deserves respect that players with overblown egos do not deserve.

AndyClifton

I think he had Chessplayer Geek Disorder.

AndyClifton
VLMJ wrote:

Couldn't you make a further case of what you originally said about Bobby Fischer without resorting to name calling and arguing ad hominem? 


Uh-oh, the high school debate team awaits...

raul72
Elroch wrote:
raul72 wrote:

 Lets look at Spassky---why didnt he pull up stakes and go home ?  Vanity---thy name is woman!  Spassky was ordered to come home by the powers that be in Russia and refused!  Vanity!   He said I am not going to grab my football and go home. I have a two-zip lead. I have never lost to this guy in my entire career. I am staying and I'm keeping my title the way it should be maintained---over the board.  Vanity!  He should have returned home with the title but we live and learn---and thats the name of that tune!


You underestimate Spassky, imbuing him with faults of personality belonging to someone else (and indeed indicating you share one of those faults by stating that Spassky "should" have dodged the match). Based on the evidence of his actions and his statements before, during and after the match, Spassky had no interest in avoiding loss by dodging the match. He was there to play chess and accept the result. Which is one reason he deserves respect that players with overblown egos do not deserve.


Erlock---please read a chess book occasionally so we can have a decent conversation.  Spassky had every right to go home and take his title with him---the whole world would have agreed.  But elroche---he thought he could win.  He had a two game lead---are you kidding me !  You couldn't have dragged Spassky out of Iceland with a team of wild horses.  He had a two game lead and had never lost to Fischer in his entire career. Of course, if Spassky had known Fischer could spot him a two game lead and come back to kick his ass unmercifully----SPASSKY WOULD HAVE LEFT FOR RUSSIA ON THE FASTEST JET.  He was not that big a hero.

chessdude46

I think we should put the typical symptoms of Asperger's and what Bobby Fischer had side by side and see what is same and different.

TheGrobe

What use is all this armchair psychology?  Are any of us really qualified, especially not having even met Bobby Fischer?

Elroch
raul72 wrote:
Elroch wrote:

 Lets look at Spassky---why didnt he pull up stakes and go home ?  Vanity---thy name is woman!  Spassky was ordered to come home by the powers that be in Russia and refused!  Vanity!   He said I am not going to grab my football and go home. I have a two-zip lead. I have never lost to this guy in my entire career. I am staying and I'm keeping my title the way it should be maintained---over the board.  Vanity!  He should have returned home with the title but we live and learn---and thats the name of that tune!


You underestimate Spassky, imbuing him with faults of personality belonging to someone else (and indeed indicating you share one of those faults by stating that Spassky "should" have dodged the match). Based on the evidence of his actions and his statements before, during and after the match, Spassky had no interest in avoiding loss by dodging the match. He was there to play chess and accept the result. Which is one reason he deserves respect that players with overblown egos do not deserve.


Erlock---please read a chess book occasionally so we can have a decent conversation.  Spassky had every right to go home and take his title with him---the whole world would have agreed.  But elroche---he thought he could win.  He had a two game lead---are you kidding me !  You couldn't have dragged Spassky out of Iceland with a team of wild horses.  He had a two game lead and had never lost to Fischer in his entire career. Of course, if Spassky had known Fischer could spot him a two game lead and come back to kick his ass unmercifully----SPASSKY WOULD HAVE LEFT FOR RUSSIA ON THE FASTEST JET.  He was not that big a hero.


 

Unsubstantiated claims are not given any more weight by repeating them in capitals.

Can you provide the slightest evidence for your attack on Spassky's character?

raul72

I am not attacking Spassky---I am stating the obvious. Spassky had a comfortable life in Russia. A big house, nice car---many assistants.  Spassky could pretty much say and do whatever he wanted to. It was a comfortable life---a lazy life as Karpov has pointed out on numerous occasions.

We all know by now (I hope) that if you are Russian and you are humiliated by Fischer on the chessboard---you will suffer at home.  Look at  Taimanov---after his 6-0 defeat by Fischer he was crucified when he returned to Russia. Taimanov knew he was in for a rough time when his person and luggage was given a through examination at the airport. Woe is me---there are bad times a coming!  He was given a smaller house, His monthly stipend was eliminated, his wife left him.  He wasn't even allowed to earn money playing the piano. I could continue but isnt that enough Elroach.  Does anyone believe the Russians dont suffer if you are humiliated by Fischer on the chessboard ?

Lets get back to the chase---Spassky knew the same fate awaited him if he suffered inglorious defeat at the hands of Fischer but his penalty would be even more severe. He knew if he lost to Fischer he would have to leave the fatherland. To make a long story short---he was humiliated and he did leave Russia. He left his relatives, his friends, his home.

He could have maintained everything---his pride, his title, his possessions, his fatherland---by simply packing up after the forfeiture of the second game and returning to Russia. He was a reasonable man, if somewhat lazy---if he had known what was going to happen he would have returned to Russia in a New York minute. He was only 34---do you think he wanted his chess life to be over a 34?   Do you really need evidence to believe that. 

Of course Fischer revived Spassky's career in 92' when he put a couple of million dollars in his pocket. Spassky's was travelling around the world given speeches, giving simuls, raking in the cash!  Elrocke, can you doubt he said a little prayer for Bobby before going to bed each night.

Bobby, bobby, bobby---I thank you, my family thanks you and tryst thanks you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!