Fairplay Violation and Failure to Respond by the Chess.com Team

cena000

There are some major shortcomings regarding the game rules of Chess.com. I had this daily game with someone. In such matches, you have 24 hours to make a move. The game reached draw position (a pawn with bishop and king for white, and king and bishop for black). There was no way for him or me to force a checkmate. So I requested a draw, and of course he refused because he never wanted the game to be over since he had lost the last game, therefore losing in total.  

I emailed chess.com support team and let them know about the game. They failed to respond.
Anyway, so, I figured if I could let the game continue so I run out of time and reach a draw. But ridiculously, Chess.com put my game on freeze ("vacation mode"!), which is something that I did not want. 
Clearly, when they were setting the rules, they hadn't thought about different options. Although some rules are strong, but some players find ways to abuse the system and violate fair play. 

LaxmiB52

As long as there is a pawn, there is a chance for an eventual checkmate. 

Martin_Stahl
cena000 wrote:

There are some major shortcomings regarding the game rules of Chess.com. I had this daily game with someone. In such matches, you have 24 hours to make a move. The game reached draw position (a pawn with bishop and king for white, and king and bishop for black). There was no way for him or me to force a checkmate. So I requested a draw, and of course he refused because he never wanted the game to be over since he had lost the last game, therefore losing in total.  

I emailed chess.com support team and let them know about the game. They failed to respond.
Anyway, so, I figured if I could let the game continue so I run out of time and reach a draw. But ridiculously, Chess.com put my game on freeze ("vacation mode"!), which is something that I did not want. 
Clearly, when they were setting the rules, they hadn't thought about different options. Although some rules are strong, but some players find ways to abuse the system and violate fair play. 

 

Since you are premium, you will be place automatically on vacation for all games where you are on the move when low on time on one or more of your games, except for games with no vacation.

 

I also don't believe the site will adjudicate the game, so you'll either need to get to an insufficient material ending, get a triple repetition of position, 50 moves with no captures or pawn moves, or wait for your opponent to blunder or not be able to progress.

 

They are also very busy, so ticket response times can take up to week in some cases.

cena000
Martin_Stahl wrote:
cena000 wrote:

There are some major shortcomings regarding the game rules of Chess.com. I had this daily game with someone. In such matches, you have 24 hours to make a move. The game reached draw position (a pawn with bishop and king for white, and king and bishop for black). There was no way for him or me to force a checkmate. So I requested a draw, and of course he refused because he never wanted the game to be over since he had lost the last game, therefore losing in total.  

I emailed chess.com support team and let them know about the game. They failed to respond.
Anyway, so, I figured if I could let the game continue so I run out of time and reach a draw. But ridiculously, Chess.com put my game on freeze ("vacation mode"!), which is something that I did not want. 
Clearly, when they were setting the rules, they hadn't thought about different options. Although some rules are strong, but some players find ways to abuse the system and violate fair play. 

 

Since you are premium, you will be place automatically on vacation for all games where you are on the move when low on time on one or more of your games, except for games with no vacation.

 

I also don't believe the site will adjudicate the game, so you'll either need to get to an insufficient material ending, get a triple repetition of position, 50 moves with no captures or pawn moves, or wait for your opponent to blunder or not be able to progress.

 

They are also very busy, so ticket response times can take up to week in some cases.

I have the option of turning the "vacation mode" off in the settings. I did that, but after some time passes, it still shows up. And 50 moves?! imagine how long that's going to take because every player has 24 hours for every move. And triple repetition position wouldn't be also possible because my opponent makes random moves. 

Here's the link to may game: https://www.chess.com/daily/game/266784722

cena000
LaxmiB52 wrote:

As long as there is a pawn, there is a chance for an eventual checkmate. 

In some situation it's not. Check out my game: 

https://www.chess.com/daily/game/266784722

Laskersnephew

Obviously the side without the pawn can easily lose this game. You might argue that it could never happen in real life, because the defending side side would have to blunder horribly, but there is no rule against blundering horribly, so this game wouldn't be a draw under any set of rules I know

cena000
Laskersnephew wrote:

Obviously the side without the pawn can easily lose this game. You might argue that it could never happen in real life, because the defending side side would have to blunder horribly, but there is no rule against blundering horribly, so this game wouldn't be a draw under any set of rules I know

Well yes, but it will be a draw if I run out of time. Because I am the one has the extra pawn. But Chess.com puts my game on Freeze! that's the problem. 

Laskersnephew

I'm Sorry! I assumed you must be the one who was a pawn down! So yes, your opponent was a moron for playing on. But I'm not sure being a moron constitutes a Fair Play violation. Your plan of letting the clock run out was ingenious. I know that the "insufficient material" rule applies in speed games, but does it apply to long games too? I should know that rule, but I don't

cena000
Laskersnephew wrote:

I'm Sorry! I assumed you must be the one who was a pawn down! So yes, your opponent was a moron for playing on. But I'm not sure being a moron constitutes a Fair Play violation. Your plan of letting the clock run out was ingenious. I know that the "insufficient material" rule applies in speed games, but does it apply to long games too? I should know that rule, but I don't

According to chess.com rules, it should apply for all games, because they don't specify the game type. 

I think this is somehow fairplay violation because he is wasting time on purpose. If I don't run out of time, the game can go on for ever. All he has to do is to make a random move with his bishop. He doesn't have to move the king and he can simply avoid repetition which he has also been doing. 

It's a very nasty situation that is possible for all players. Anyhow, the chess.com system has some loopholes which allows some players to abuse it. They can at least let me deactivate the "vacation mode". I hope they read this topic. 

Martin_Stahl
cena000 wrote:

I have the option of turning the "vacation mode" off in the settings. I did that, but after some time passes, it still shows up. And 50 moves?! imagine how long that's going to take because every player has 24 hours for every move. And triple repetition position wouldn't be also possible because my opponent makes random moves. 

Here's the link to may game: https://www.chess.com/daily/game/266784722

 

You can't turn off vacation completely just go off of vacation and as you found out, you'll go back on vacation as soon as you get low on time in a game again.

 

But it is not a Fair Play violation. There are no rules on having to accept a draw and a player is allowed to play mate, time out, or another draw condition is met, whether that be forced as explained or eventually being accepted. The game can't go on forever, because at the very minimum it will end after 50 total moves from the last capture or pawn move.

cena000
Martin_Stahl wrote:
cena000 wrote:

I have the option of turning the "vacation mode" off in the settings. I did that, but after some time passes, it still shows up. And 50 moves?! imagine how long that's going to take because every player has 24 hours for every move. And triple repetition position wouldn't be also possible because my opponent makes random moves. 

Here's the link to may game: https://www.chess.com/daily/game/266784722

 

You can't turn off vacation completely just go off of vacation and as you found out, you'll go back on vacation as soon as you get low on time in a game again.

 

But it is not a Fair Play violation. There are no rules on having to accept a draw and a player is allowed to play mate, time out, or another draw condition is met, whether that be forced as explained or eventually being accepted. The game can't go on forever, because at the very minimum it will end after 50 total moves from the last capture or pawn move.

First, about fair play: it depends on how the fairplay is defined. In soccer for instance, when a player is down, the opponent team is expected to shoot the ball way, but in some instances they wouldn't do it, which is a violation of fair play, but they do not get penalized for it. This is also true in many other sports. I don't think there is a fixed and unchangeable definition for fair play in chess. It is true that chess.com cannot force someone to agree to a draw, but the same chess.com takes action on reports on "Stalling, Quitting games" which is somehow the same? When someone stalls in the game, they are wasting the time on purpose which means they are abusing the game. My opponent is wasting time by making late moves that do not have any effects and keep the game going as much as possible. So he is abusing the game by taking advantage from the long duration of the every move.  

 

However, these are all irrelevant now. The main thing here is that, for the same reason that a player cannot be forced to accept a draw against their will, then I should not either be forced to have the "vacation mode" activated on my game against my will ! This is now where the actual problem lies, because it has come to the point where time has become meaningless. And that's a problem.