Help make Chess.com even better! - Trophys and Surveys!
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Dec 8, 2008
0
#23
SURVEY SUGGESTION:
What is your view towards Team Matches?
- Every GROUP should put forward it strongest team - regardless of their opponents' strength
- I would like an option for more-balanced contests
- unequal Team Matches should not count towards Team Match statistics
- What are Team Matches?
Dec 8, 2008
0
#24
sure arty, just go to someones profile, and you have the option to send them a trophy, those are the ones other than the game related ones, ill send you one now :-)
Dec 8, 2008
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#25
isnt the point of a contest to see whos best? the team that has the strongest [players SHOULD WIN! but the fun is, that the underdogs always have a chance to pull off a suprise!
Dec 8, 2008
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#26
gumpty wrote:
isn't the point of a contest to see who's best? the team that has the strongest [players SHOULD WIN! but the fun is, that the underdogs always have a chance to pull off a suprise!
No, but seriously - all joking aside - do you honestly think that the first team pairing shown below (i.e. group A fields its strongest team)
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A1(2447) |
vs |
B1 (2300) |
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A2 (2160) |
vs. |
B2 (1565) |
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A3 (2037) |
vs. |
B3(1524) |
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A4 (1838) |
vs. |
B4(1520) |
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A5 (1753) |
vs. |
B5 (1505) |
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A6 (1729) |
vs. |
B6 (1482) |
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A7 (1706) |
vs. |
B7 (1407) |
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A8 (1705) |
vs. |
B8 (1394) |
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A9 (1683) |
vs. |
B9 (1356) |
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A10 (1672) |
vs. |
B10(1319) |
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A11(1670) |
vs. |
B11 (1303) |
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A12 (1634) |
vs. |
B12 (1180) |
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A13 (1570) |
vs. |
B13 (1057) |
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A14 (1570) |
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A15(1527) |
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A16 (1388) |
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A17 (1387) |
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A18 (1373) |
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A19 (1327) |
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A20 (1325) |
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A22 (992) |
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is better IN ANY WAY than the second one (A's team is matched by rating with B's team)?
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A1(2447) |
vs |
B1 (2300) |
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A2 (2160) |
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A3 (2037) |
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A4 (1838) |
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A5 (1753) |
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A6 (1729) |
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A7 (1706) |
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A8 (1705) |
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|
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A9 (1683) |
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|
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A10 (1672) |
|
|
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A11(1670) |
vs. |
B2 (1565) |
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A12 (1634) |
vs. |
B3(1524) |
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A13 (1570) |
vs. |
|
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A14 (1570) |
vs. |
B5 (1505) |
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A15(1527) |
vs. |
B6 (1482) |
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A16 (1388) |
vs. |
B7 (1407) |
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A17 (1387) |
vs. |
B8 (1394) |
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A18 (1373) |
vs. |
B9 (1356) |
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A19 (1327) |
vs. |
B10(1319) |
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A20 (1325) |
vs. |
B11 (1303) |
|
vs. |
B12 (1180) |
|
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A22 (992) |
vs. |
B13 (1057) |
This is not a football match between clubs: this is a chess match between individuals whose individual rating has been fairly precisely measured by chess.com. Even if chess is not a sport, it is hardly a sporting contest to have a 300 point rating difference (on average) - 500 in some cases.
Or IS club/group/team allegiance MORE IMPORTANT than a sporting contest?
Dec 8, 2008
0
#27
artfizz wrote:
Is it possible to view the list of available Game Trophies - other than when awarding them at the end of a game?
gumpty wrote:
sure arty, just go to someones profile, and you have the option to send them a trophy, those are the ones other than the game related ones, ill send you one now :-)
Thank you for the other-than-game-related trophy, gumpty.
Let me rephrase my enquiry: Is it possible to view the list of available Game Trophies - NOT FUN TROPHIES - other than when awarding them at the end of a game?
the one who came up with the most new ideas trophy
Dec 8, 2008
0
#29
sorry, missread your post mate, oh well, hope you enjoyed the pizza in any case :-)
Dec 8, 2008
0
#30
gumpty wrote:
sorry, missread your post mate, oh well, hope you enjoyed the pizza in any case :-)
My favourite, yum! yum!
Now where's that "you misread my post - but not to worry, because you sent me a fun trophy anyway - and it's the thought that counts" fun trophy?
Dec 8, 2008
0
#31
artfizz wrote:
gumpty wrote:
isn't the point of a contest to see who's best? the team that has the strongest [players SHOULD WIN! but the fun is, that the underdogs always have a chance to pull off a suprise!
Or IS club/group/team allegiance MORE IMPORTANT than a sporting contest?
You can make it a sporting contest by limiting the ratings that enter for the matches - this is particularly useful when the lower rated members of a team never get a game.
Team matches are awarded points, so the team with the most points should be the strongest team, so teams are likely to field their strongest teams where possibly in order to pick up points - sporting in the sense that it is a blood sport.
The best solution might be to form A teams/B teams etc. within groups with a maximum number of boards and set up a league system within chess.com.
Dec 8, 2008
0
#32
gumpty wrote: isn't the point of a contest to see who's best? the team that has the strongest [players SHOULD WIN! but the fun is, that the underdogs always have a chance to pull off a suprise!
artfizz wrote: Or IS club/group/team allegiance MORE IMPORTANT than a sporting contest?
jonnyjupiter wrote: You can make it a sporting contest by limiting the ratings that enter for the matches - this is particularly useful when the lower rated members of a team never get a game.
artfizz writes: Agreed - but this is UNFAIR towards the higher rated members of the smaller group.
jonnyjupiter wrote: Team matches are awarded points, so the team with the most points should be the strongest team, so teams are likely to field their strongest teams where possibly in order to pick up points - sporting in the sense that it is a blood sport.
artfizz writes: Perhaps it is unreasonable to put the onus on groups to limit themselves.
jonnyjupiter wrote: The best solution might be to form A teams/B teams etc. within groups with a maximum number of boards and set up a league system within chess.com.
artfizz writes: That seems a complex and divisive mechanism compared with providing a rating-balancing facility. Also, it doesn't actually work between a large group and a small group.
Dec 8, 2008
0
#33
Would it not just be like our local chess leagues? All competition is potentially divisive, but competition also gives motivation to strive for excellence.
Trophy Idea: "You let me off the hook."
Like they were about to win but blew a tactic that lost their Queen.
Right now, the only trophy that I can think of to give in that situation is "Good Game" (although I haven't looked at the trophies recently)
Art, unless you've given a trophy to every single opponent for every single game in your archive, just go to one in which you DIDN'T give a trophy and click on the "give a trophy" just long enuf to see all the options without actually giving the trophy.
The Team Match pairings can certainly be tricky, but there are a couple of tools available that can help if used properly. The Auto-Start ensures that at least one of the two teams will play with the 1st people to sign up rather than the strongest. And the ability to limit the ratings can exclude certain members of each group ensuring more even pairings. Used in conjunction, with match size (number of boards), I believe it's possible to achieve a fair match between any 2 teams. Some are still bound to be lopsided anyway.
Dec 9, 2008
0
#36
Billium248 wrote:
Art, unless you've given a trophy to every single opponent for every single game in your archive, just go to one in which you DIDN'T give a trophy and click on the "give a trophy" just long enuf to see all the options without actually giving the trophy.
That's a neat trick. Thanks. (Also, I might decide to give a trophy four months late!)
Billium248 also wrote: The Team Match pairings can certainly be tricky, but there are a couple of tools available that can help if used properly. The Auto-Start ensures that at least one of the two teams will play with the 1st people to sign up rather than the strongest. And the ability to limit the ratings can exclude certain members of each group ensuring more even pairings. U sed in conjunction, with match size (number of boards), I believe it's possible to achieve a fair match between any 2 teams. Some are still bound to be lopsided anyw ay.
Both mechanisms certainly help.
For Auto-Start to be useful, only the stronger group needs to apply it - or both groups need to agree in advance to apply it. And like "turkeys voting for Christmas", it's not likely to happen because, naturally, each group wants to field its strongest team. Using Auto-Start is actually a disadvantage for the smaller group as it locks their weakest team in.
Secondly, the smaller the group, the slower they will tend to be to fill the places in a team match. So even if the stronger group is using Auto-Start, can their team line-up not still change until the second team is filled?
Thirdly, is the Auto-Start option visible on incoming Team Match challenges? If it is, then at least directed challenges can be turned down in favour of Auto-Start ones.
Rating Limitation (as Gumpty also helpfully suggested): The problem with this option is that it excludes the stronger players in the smaller group - as well as in the larger group. Groups with half a dozen members, trying to fill a team of 4, are going to struggle even more if some of their members are excluded.
Undoubtably, some contests are going to be lopsided anyway. I think chess.com does a fantastic job in providing the balancing mechanisms it does: in Team Matches, players are sorted into ranking order; in multi-round tournaments, groups are filled on a round-robin basis so that all groups have much the same ratings range; on individual challenges, the rating range can be limited. Since the title of this discussion is: help make chess.com even better, I'm encouraged to explore schemes that potentially would make chess.com even better - with invaluable feedback as to why my schemes won't work!
Yes, the "Auto Start" is visible in the challenge. It applies to both sides and cannot be applied to only one. Therefore the larger team would inevitably fill up the spaces a little faster and have a slightly stronger team than the smaller group who will start the match as soon as they reach the magic number. How much of a ratings advantage this will give them depends on how fast each team fills up, and who fills it up. The longer the registration period, the more it favors the larger team.
For a survey "How old were you when you started playing chess"
Who designs the trophies? We could do with some more imaginative design ideas!
madpawn wrote:
Who designs the trophies? We could do with some more imaginative design ideas!
Well, as for the graphics, most of that is just found clipart. As for the overall ideas, Patzer24 has done a lot of them, Ive done some of the more recent ones. I agree that they can be a bit more imaginative, that's the reason for this post. :-)
Is it possible to view the list of available Game Trophies - other than when awarding them at the end of a game?