Oh, I just found this tidbit in Oatmeal's posting
"I simply treat the online board as a notation device and play the game on my board"
So even in justification, he admits having a physcial board violates the rule of having no notes.
If that excuse had been offered, I would have forfeited his present game and if happened again, would have thrown him out of the tournament.
So had a game forfeited recently for making a small note in a tournament game.
If you were playing in a live OTB tournament. You couldn't set up a mirror board at the table. How is this different?
Actually, you can. Monroi and PlyCounter notation devices have mirrors of the board.
Oh, I just found this tidbit in Oatmeal's posting
"I simply treat the online board as a notation device and play the game on my board"
So even in justification, he admits having a physcial board violates the rule of having no notes.
If that excuse had been offered, I would have forfeited his present game and if happened again, would have thrown him out of the tournament.
I'm sorry, but this is wrong. Notation devices are allowed and do not fall under the rule about "note taking."
Also, if you zoom in on the photograph I'm using as an avatar, you can see me playing in an OTB tournament with a notation device mirroring the board right beside me. Approved specifically by the tournament director beforehand. Monroi and PlyCounter devices are sanctioned by USCF.
My opponent in the picture is using one, too.
But that facilitates keeping a durable unchanging record of the game. How would setting up a mirror board facilitate that requirement?. Monroi and such are special exceptions to the rule,not a precident to expand or negate the rule.
But that facilitates keeping a durable unchanging record of the game. How would setting up a mirror board facilitate that requirement?. Monroi and such are special exceptions to the rule,not a precident to expand or negate the rule.
Not relevant. There is no rule against mirroring the board on this server or any other one. I've spoken with staff on several servers about it and they've confirmed there is no rule against it. Trying to compare it to otb was not my idea and I have no interest in trying to defend the comparison. I was merely correcting the erroneous claim that it doesn't happen otb.
This goes way back to the first online chess servers where the moves and a board depiction were sent in plain text over telnet. It was very natural to set up a real board to keep track of the position, basically the only way to really play. Later, servers added graphical interfaces, but there's no requirement to rely on those graphics, specifically or implied.
edit to add: if you really want to continue the otb comparison, all I've done is what you've described. Playing the game on the physical board and using the chess server to keep a "durable unchanging record of the game."
Yes, although I personally think it's also cheating to get input from other players during a team match. It goes against the spirit of the game IMHO.
Why is the OP even asking this question? I seriously doubt this is a legit question concerning cheating.Have the Trolls come out from under the bridge again?
It's more fair play than anything else.
Lol there is no way using a physical chess board is cheating, some people are just overexcited when they hear the word cheating and make up a ton of non-existant rules.
Oatmeal,
Notation is writing down the moves. It is not only permissible in tournament, but it is also against the rule not to do so. You can use pen and paper (the most common way), or electronically. But there are strict rules for electronic use. You cannot use certain functions such as playing over the game or have it evaluate moves (such as +/- or =).
But using ANY notes, for help in ANY part of the game, is against the rules.
GM So was forfeited in a game at the US Championship this year for using his own notes to himself on his score sheet about time control, concentrating, etc. He was previously warned on an earlier game about being forfeited if continued to do so.
A physical chess board is not a notation device. It does not record moves, but it does provide a reference point to a position. It can also be used to construct a position or even to help you remember which bishop is the king-side bishop.
Therefore, it cannot be used in a tournament game.
You are confusing a notation device with a note. That’s where the error is and that is why I pointed it out.
Oatmeal,
Notation is writing down the moves. It is not only permissible in tournament, but it is also against the rule not to do so. You can use pen and paper (the most common way), or electronically. But there are strict rules for electronic use. You cannot use certain functions such as playing over the game or have it evaluate moves (such as +/- or =).
But using ANY notes, for help in ANY part of the game, is against the rules.
GM So was forfeited in a game at the US Championship this year for using his own notes to himself on his score sheet about time control, concentrating, etc. He was previously warned on an earlier game about being forfeited if continued to do so.
A physical chess board is not a notation device. It does not record moves, but it does provide a reference point to a position. It can also be used to construct a position or even to help you remember which bishop is the king-side bishop.
Therefore, it cannot be used in a tournament game.
You are confusing a notation device with a note. That’s where the error is and that is why I pointed it out.
LOL, I'm aware of all of that, even if it is blue for no reason this time. I am not confusing a notation device with a note. It's you that's doing that. You keep throwing out this red herring about Wesley So, who was taking notes during a game, being forfeited. He was taking notes, not notating chess moves. We can all agree notating chess moves is legal, note-taking is not. I'm not making any notes during the games, only using the computer as the notation device. Therefore, what I am doing has absolutely nothing to do with what Wesley So did. Again, it is you that's confusing those two things, not me.
Also, I like you telling me that a physical chess board cannot be used during a tournament game. I don't think I've ever read anything as nonsensical as that.
Bottom line, you are trying to do all kinds of mental gymnastics to justify something that is just not true. It is not illegal to use a physical board and pieces during an online game as long as you only have the current position on the board at all times.
Therefore, it cannot be used in a tournament game.
You are confusing a notation device with a note. That’s where the error is and that is why I pointed it out
LOL, I'm aware of all of that, even if it is blue for no reason this time. I am not confusing a notation device with a note. It's you that's doing that. You keep throwing out this red herring about Wesley So, who was taking notes during a game, being forfeited. He was taking notes, not notating chess moves. We can all agree notating chess moves is legal, note-taking is not. I'm not making any notes during the games, only using the computer as the notation device. Therefore, what I am doing has absolutely nothing to do with what Wesley So did. Again, it is you that's confusing those two things, not me.
....
With online Live play you couldn't enforce someone taking notes anyway and there would be no way to prove it was being done. But as PossibleOatmeal said, playing on a physical board isn't note taking anyway.
I think at least on client on ICC will work with DGT boards where you can actually play on the board and have your moves reflected in the client. I haven't played any Live here over 15 minutes (15, +10) but if I were to play a longer time control (30 minutes or more), I would very likely set up up on a normal board too, playing on it and entering the move on the site after making it on the board. Nothing wrong with it.
Ok then. Next tournament I will use my physical board!
Highly recommended! I do it all the time and it's great.
Okay, so here's a scenario that actually occurs when I play live chess, and maybe it's wrong for me to do.
I've watched video's on particular openings, and I write down the recommended responses to various lines... example:
1. d4 d5
2. c4 dxc4
3. bxc4 nf6
Something like that... I would write down the common responses on a notepad that I reference during the game (notes) so I can remember the line. I don't do this often, almost never actually, but I do use it the first few times I play through a new opening/situation, because I want to make sure I'm practicing using the correct set of moves, instead of like, randomly going 2. a4 and thinking I'm still playing Queen's Gambit...
Would you consider that cheating? I'm not watching a video, I'm not writing down a large number of sequences, I'm merely writing down a single recommended response to a move that I otherwise wouldn't necessarily make on my own the first time (going in blind that is) because I'm 1) new to chess and 2) new to that particular opening and 3) new to opening theory in general...
For the record, I've only done this with two openings, Queen's Gabmit Decline/Accepted (for accepted I just wrote the "trap" sequence down so if they ever fell for it, I wouldn't blunder it up) and for the Ruy Lopez when I was trying to make that my "master an opening for white" opening for white (I gave up, too many variables in the opening that I don't understand yet, such as when to exchange and when not to. I will come back to it later). I don't want to be labeled a cheater, and I definitely don't use Engines or watch video's while I play, but I typically always have a notebook in front of me (I don't even own a physical chess set...), but that's because I'm used to being able to reference notes in other games I've played.
Edit: I just read a comment I missed earlier, clearly this is cheating and so I won't do it anymore. Does anyone have any recommendations for how to practice specific openings so that I can get a good feel/habit of making the right moves so when I practice new openings I'm not just hoping they respond with one of the two lines I remember?
Okay, so here's a scenario that actually occurs when I play live chess, and maybe it's wrong for me to do.
I've watched video's on particular openings, and I write down the recommended responses to various lines... example:
1. d4 d5
2. c4 dxc4
3. bxc4 nf6
Something like that... I would write down the common responses on a notepad that I reference during the game (notes) so I can remember the line. I don't do this often, almost never actually, but I do use it the first few times I play through a new opening/situation, because I want to make sure I'm practicing using the correct set of moves, instead of like, randomly going 2. a4 and thinking I'm still playing Queen's Gambit...
Would you consider that cheating? I'm not watching a video, I'm not writing down a large number of sequences, I'm merely writing down a single recommended response to a move that I otherwise wouldn't necessarily make on my own the first time (going in blind that is) because I'm 1) new to chess and 2) new to that particular opening and 3) new to opening theory in general...
For the record, I've only done this with two openings, Queen's Gabmit Decline/Accepted (for accepted I just wrote the "trap" sequence down so if they ever fell for it, I wouldn't blunder it up) and for the Ruy Lopez when I was trying to make that my "master an opening for white" opening for white (I gave up, too many variables in the opening that I don't understand yet, such as when to exchange and when not to. I will come back to it later). I don't want to be labeled a cheater, and I definitely don't use Engines or watch video's while I play, but I typically always have a notebook in front of me (I don't even own a physical chess set...), but that's because I'm used to being able to reference notes in other games I've played.
i cant see how that wouldnt be considered cheating - the other person doesnt have the same luxury - i know you're not trying to be that way, but its not consistent
with youtube, i think it would likely be considered cheating, especially if the content of what you're watching is even remotely related to whats going on during your game
anyone who plays on the internet and doesnt see their opponent cant take the game super seriously because you just never know - you have to accept that before you play and enjoy, i think
Yes - it is cheating to use ANY notes during play. Notes can include anything that is written, a diagram or a board set-up with ANY position. If it was legal to do so in tournament, wouldn't you see everyone doing in OTB tournaments?
The problem is that your mind might be able to see a position better with a physical board that on a computer screen. You can also come back to the board when analyzing. In a sense you are using the physical board as a bookmark. Which is a note to aid your analysis. And that is not allowed.
I used to be a tournament director. I'm proud to say I never had a decision overturned ;)