Why does chess.com allow an avatar of a Nazi?

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IMKeto
deaf_blue_bottles wrote:
IMBacon wrote:
deaf_blue_bottles wrote:
IMBacon wrote:
the_chess_zebra wrote:

`This is very disconcerting.  I reported the Avatar 4 days ago and still no reply from Shaun, the manager of chess.com support team.

 

If chess.com is a family-friendly website, Nazi images have absolutely no place here.  I'm disgusted!!!

Use the interwebz, and learn what the swastika symbol stands for originally.

Then use a history book, and learn what the swastika stands for today.

lol

I prefer to use the traditional meaning.  Not what some lunatic decided it meant.  But thats just me...

Hitler (and his allies) fully thought it was a good symbol, the people who decided it was bad (also known as all of civilized society) sacrificed a lot to make sure the symbol was bad.

But hey, funny how your type suddenly becomes a history buff, but only when topics like this come up. I'm sure that's what you tell the grandkids as you're packing your stuff for another unite the right rally.

"No no little Timmy, grandpa just likes, umm... history.

I get that your act is to cause drama here, but you lost me on that last part.

congrandolor
Ken_Ken0510 wrote:

I think the fact that you are disgusted and reported a user for their avatar shows a certain amount of prejudice  on your part. I have traveled all around the world and it is safe to say that the swastica does not have the same meaning to everyone as it does to those who have had their belief systems conditioned by western history.

For instance from wikipedia:
The swastika or sauwastika (as a character, 卐 or 卍, respectively) is a geometrical figure and an ancient religious icon in the cultures of Eurasia. It is used as a symbol of divinity and spirituality in Indian religions.

There are carvings of the swastika that date back to the 9th century.

As far as I know there are a lot of players here from all around the world including India where the swastika holds different meanings. Part of a being a member of a GLOBAL COMMUNITY is accepting that your narrow view of the world and things in it are not viewed the same way by every citizen. 

Perhaps you have been "disgusted" out of your own ignorance?

Well, maybe you are right. On the other hand, if  next to the symbol there is an ugly man with a tiny moustache...

Runsub4
congrandolor wrote:
Ken_Ken0510 wrote:

I think the fact that you are disgusted and reported a user for their avatar shows a certain amount of prejudice  on your part. I have traveled all around the world and it is safe to say that the swastica does not have the same meaning to everyone as it does to those who have had their belief systems conditioned by western history.

For instance from wikipedia:
The swastika or sauwastika (as a character, 卐 or 卍, respectively) is a geometrical figure and an ancient religious icon in the cultures of Eurasia. It is used as a symbol of divinity and spirituality in Indian religions.

There are carvings of the swastika that date back to the 9th century.

As far as I know there are a lot of players here from all around the world including India where the swastika holds different meanings. Part of a being a member of a GLOBAL COMMUNITY is accepting that your narrow view of the world and things in it are not viewed the same way by every citizen. 

Perhaps you have been "disgusted" out of your own ignorance?

Well, maybe you are right. On the other hand, if  next to the symbol there is an ugly man with a tiny moustache...

Then I personally block the person so I do not have to play against him/her and do not need to communicate with the user. 

One click of the mouse and I am back to a happy space with no drama! I do not feel that I need to make a crusade out of every little thing that I do not agree with -- Live and let die!

Runsub4
the_chess_zebra wrote:

Ken_Ken0510 - you're kidding, right?  This has nothing tó do with prejudice or anything else you said.  Nazi paraphenalia is distintive and your cultural excuses are off base.  There is no room on chess or any other decent website for Nazi anything.  If you don't get that, then someone needs to take you behind the sauna for a little "chat".  Seriously!


The Nazi's: "I find that group of people over there offensive, let's go kill them".
chess_zebra: "I find that persons "cultural excuses" offensive, let's take him behind the sauna for a 'chat'".

Things that make you say - Hmmm!

David
IMBacon wrote:
woollensock wrote:
Why must it always be a “ ticket “ and not via a message. Will you please clarify what the correct procedure is for reporting these sort of situations ! .......thanks

I will help clarify this for ya...

The "new" Report button does not work.  I sent 6 "Reports" and not a single reply in over a month. 

I had to use the email the support team directly  to get a reply. 

The new "Report" button is a different mechanism that doesn't log a ticket in their Help Desk system: that feeds into a statistical system that tracks the number of reports made against particular users, and a Chess.com support person looks at the accounts who attract the most number of reports - there are no tickets and you don't get a reply when using that function.

Using the link that Martin supplied (which can also be reached via Help -> Contact) does log a ticket in the Help Desk system: as soon as you do that, the sytem sends to the email you supply an automatic acknowledgement and it enters an action queue. Support staff deal with every ticket in that queue, and when they get to yours, they will contact you via the email address you supply - it's therefore important that you make sure you get the automated acknowledgement because it makes sure you've given the right email address, it;s not being sent to your junk folder, etc etc etc - or staff will not be able to contact you.

I'm not sure if emailing the Support team directly generates a ticket automatically, or whether staff do that manually when they receive the email.

RonaldJosephCote

   The OP posted nothing for 5 yrs......hmm.surprise.png

Runsub4
deaf_blue_bottles wrote:

It's stupid to pretend either everything is or isn't offensive.

Some things are, and some things aren't. Nazis are offensive, and swastikas are fine as long as you have a legitimate claim, not some semi-literate hillbilly who suddenly becomes a professor of history when questioned about his Nazi paraphernalia.

I tend to believe that everything is BOTH offensive and not offensive.

What one finds offensive comes from ones belief systems which are grounded in moral, social, economical, religious, and cultural exposures.

As has been pointed out by several people in this thread the swastica is not offensive to entire groups of people. It actually represents divinity to them. As pointed out by you and others the swastica represents perhaps the lowest depths humanity can reach.

The question here is not weather or not the swastika is offensive -> the answer is yes AND no depending on who you ask. The questions is weather not we put on our big boy pants when we are offended. 

Do we walk away and "Live and let die" refusing to participate with things we find offensive OR do we attempt to force everyone to comply with our definition of offensive by trying to control what is disseminated. OR WORSE YET. do we take people behind the sauna for a "chat" until they comply with our definition of offensive. 

What would have happened if the OP would have simply blocked the the user he found offensive and everyone else who found the users avatar offensive blocked that user. Then said user would have been playing chess with only people who are like minded - no matter what the swastica represents to them. At last - Live and let die!

the_chess_zebra

Let me be clear.  The avatar is a person in a Nazi uniform.  This is not about swastika.  It's about presenting yourself as something abhorrent that devastated Germany and Poland, where most of the death camps were located.  I spent my formative years in Austria and one of my friend's father is still disturbed, even though he is a very successful businessman and raised a wonderful family.  When he 17 years old, he was drafted into the Austrian regular army.  His job was to guard the gate at the local paper factory.  Covered trucks would come to the gate and he would open the gate after checking the ID of the driver, who was usually also regular army, but occassionally Nazi officers.  It wasn't until after the war and that the factory was opened for inspection.  What they found was shocking.  It was an exterminiation camp, mostly likely political prisoners who were Austrian citizens.  We must never forget what the Nazis did.  They gunned down the Hapsburg royal family in the basement of Schonbrunn, the main palace.  They systematically wiped out 11 eleven million people, the majority of which were European jews.  After the war, most of the Nazis never stood trial.  One of the most infamous torturers, Mengele, fled to Brazil and was never found.  The commander of Auschwitz, Rudolf Hess, was hanged by  the Allies after a brief trial convicting him of war crimes.  The night before his execution, he wrote a letter to his children.  He said that he did his duty, in his heart he felt it was somehow wrong, but he obeyed his orders.  He warned his children against this.  He said one must do what is right, orders or not, because to participate in horror is the ultimate evil.  Now, I'm paraphrasing what he wrote, but that is the general message.  Neo-nazi's extol Hess as the supreme example of a Nazi.  Apparently, they never read his letter.  Because if a top commander like Hess, who was personally responsible for the extermination of over 1 million innocent people, wrote that The Final Solution was the epitome of evil, then  we must pay attention.  We must be vigilant and speak up.  Anyone who extols the Nazi beliefs is either misguided or completely insane.   There are many ideas about what is offensive and what is not, hence, I believe in freedom of speech. I  also believe in freedom from speech, specifically advertizing Nazi ideology and all of its images as though it's socially acceptable.  It is not acceptable and nearly even member state of the Unitied Nations has signed a declaration agreeing to this basic premise.  There are really few things in this world that are universally condemned as evil.  I'm not talking about what might offend a Muslin as blasphemy would not be offensive to someone else.  There is a difference between disagreeing about our different beliefs and objecting to something that is so abhorrent, it is even put in writing so there is no misunderstanding among nations.  Yes, it's true that Iran never signed the treaty, but that does give someone from Iran the right to parade as a Nazi on chess.com.  In the case that I reported, it was not an Iranian.  I like Iranians, they are nice people and I had many friends at the university, even after the the Revolution broke out.  Your attempts to defend the swastika is not what my post is about.  Your attempts to equate the pictorial image of a chess player dressed up as a Wehrmacht SS Nazi has no comparison to being offended by a difference of social or religious opinion because the Nazi evil was real and on a completely difference scale.  The only thing comparable is perhaps genocide and in many respects, what happened to the European jews was genodice.   Yes, I objected to the avatar because chess.com is not some hidden website on the dark web.  It is a family-friendly place for everyone to come and enjoy a game of chess.  To have someone displaying themself as a Nazi has no place here.  So, I spoke up and I will speak up again.  And I make no apologies.  'nuff said.

 

IMKeto
Ken_Ken0510 wrote:
deaf_blue_bottles wrote:

It's stupid to pretend either everything is or isn't offensive.

Some things are, and some things aren't. Nazis are offensive, and swastikas are fine as long as you have a legitimate claim, not some semi-literate hillbilly who suddenly becomes a professor of history when questioned about his Nazi paraphernalia.

I tend to believe that everything is BOTH offensive and not offensive.

What one finds offensive comes from ones belief systems which are grounded in moral, social, economical, religious, and cultural exposures.

As has been pointed out by several people in this thread the swastica is not offensive to entire groups of people. It actually represents divinity to them. As pointed out by you and others the swastica represents perhaps the lowest depths humanity can reach.

The question here is not weather or not the swastika is offensive -> the answer is yes AND no depending on who you ask. The questions is weather not we put on our big boy pants when we are offended. 

Do we walk away and "Live and let die" refusing to participate with things we find offensive OR do we attempt to force everyone to comply with our definition of offensive by trying to control what is disseminated. OR WORSE YET. do we take people behind the sauna for a "chat" until they comply with our definition of offensive. 

What would have happened if the OP would have simply blocked the the user he found offensive and everyone else who found the users avatar offensive blocked that user. Then said user would have been playing chess with only people who are like minded - no matter what the swastica represents to them. At last - Live and let die!

Excellent post...but you would lose about 99% of the drama here that people crave, if your advice was followed.

Toire

Hitler was a hero because he killed the leader of the Nazis

the_chess_zebra

About the chat behind the sauna, that's an old Finnish saying if you have something to discuss in private.    It's a joke at work if you screw up - your co-worker will say, "Ah, now the boss will want to meet you behind the sauna."

 

the_chess_zebra
the_chess_zebra wrote:

About the chat behind the sauna, that's an old Finnish saying if you have something to discuss in private.    It's a joke at work if you screw up and your co-worker says, "Ah, now the boss will want to meet you behind the sauna."

 

 

the_chess_zebra
the_chess_zebra wrote:
the_chess_zebra wrote:

About the chat behind the sauna, that's an old Finnish saying if you have something to discuss in private.    It's used as joke at work if you screw up and your co-worker says, "Ah, now the boss will want to meet you behind the sauna."

 

 

 

the_chess_zebra

By the way, I think this clarifies what I've been trying to say very well: 

deaf_blue_bottles wrote:

It's stupid to pretend either everything is or isn't offensive.

Some things are, and some things aren't. Nazis are offensive, and swastikas are fine as long as you have a legitimate claim, not some semi-literate hillbilly who suddenly becomes a professor of history when questioned about his Nazi paraphernalia.

the_chess_zebra

And one last thing, I want to thank everyone for participating in this post. 

batgirl

I'm locking this thread with the last word.

Neither actual nor construed Nazi paraphernalia images have any place on this site. 

This forum topic has been locked