Thanks for you quick answer, I just want to practice the endgame against humans, how do you that?
Checkmate with knight and bishop in a specific chosen corner.
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May 14, 2022
0
#23
You send a friend request then 'play a friend' in a daily game from a set up position (I think you have to tick unrated first before you can set up the position).
I have a program called Wilhelm that will generate random positions with the king already in a "right" corner, then you just specify the opposite corner as the target mating corner, but you don't really need that.
If you like you can play against me, too (unrated). I would like to try RBvR against you.
Ladyhawke79 wrote:
This is a question for the 'knight and bishop vs lone king' endgame exerts. Woud it be possible to give checkmate with a knight and bishop against lone king, from any given position, to a chosen corner?
And if it is possible would it be possible withing the 50 moves rule?
I mean to be able to choose one of the 2 corners from the start, so to force the opponent king to that chosen corner to mate him there and only there.
My guess is it is possible but I'm not certain.
I guess the question is: why? Being able to do this does not make you better as a chess player nor demonstrate that you know the checkmate better.
May 14, 2022
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#26
But it's still interesting. And it I would guess you could well finish up understanding the checkmate better.
May 14, 2022
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#27
newbie4711 wrote:
If you like you can play against me, too (unrated). I would like to try RBvR against you.
I think setup positions are always unrated, but you don't need a human opponent for KRBKR you can play it against Syzygy.
Against tablebases krbvkr is draw, of course.
May 15, 2022
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#29
mantine73 wrote:
Yes
No, you can’t checkmate in any corner. You could only checkmate in 2 corners which are determined by the bishop color.
May 15, 2022
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#30
Yes, it can only be done on the corner square with the same color as the bishop. So that means you have to force the king to that corner first.
May 16, 2022
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#31
Ladyhawke79 wrote:
This is a question for the 'knight and bishop vs lone king' endgame exerts. Woud it be possible to give checkmate with a knight and bishop against lone king, from any given position, to a chosen corner?
And if it is possible would it be possible withing the 50 moves rule?
I mean to be able to choose one of the 2 corners from the start, so to force the opponent king to that chosen corner to mate him there and only there.
My guess is it is possible but I'm not certain.
I found your question very interesting.
I know the following link is not an answer but it could help you in finding an answer.
http://www.gilith.com/papers/chess.pdf
May 16, 2022
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#32
MARattigan wrote:
You send a friend request then 'play a friend' in a daily game from a set up position (I think you have to tick unrated first before you can set up the position).
I have a program called Wilhelm that will generate random positions with the king already in a "right" corner, then you just specify the opposite corner as the target mating corner, but you don't really need that.
Thanks MARattigan for your explanation, last night I was able to setup a KBNk position and play it against humans here at chess.com. I learnt that mate a long time ago when I learnt to play chess and then I forgot it. The method was the Deletang triangles but when I was in the process of teaching my self the mate again I discovered the W method and I practiced it against lichess.com and chess.com engines, I have to say I found it easier. Finally the reason I want to play against humans is to introduce some randomness, the engines always try to fight the hardest to avoid the mate thus a pattern appears which is some kind of annoying when you want to practice.
Although I know this mate appears very rarely I was still surprised last night to see how many players don't know how to proceed to give mate (only 2 were able to mate mate me) and I played almost 20 games.
Thanks.
May 16, 2022
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#33
@64board
"I know the following link is not an answer but it could help you in finding an answer."
I would guess a more traditional analysis along the lines sometimes found in endgame manuals might be of more help.
I'll look at the problem and post one later.
Re #32.
Glad to see you found someone to play against.
I'm not surprised at the number of fails.
Chessgames.com used to have a collection of games that finished up in KBNK; all players 2500+. Sixteen games and two fails from winning positions. That didn't include the famous fail by women's world champion Ushenina. (The collection is still there but the fails have been removed, possibly to spare some players' blushes.)
Also worth noting that the analyses of what you call the W method (Philidor's method) and Delétang triangles that are generally available include no positions of mate depth exceeding 20, whereas the average mate depth in the standard game is 27 moves and the maximum 33. I would guess the maximum in OP's game would exceed 50.
By the way it's no use practising OP's game against an engine as I pointed out earlier. See this game against SF14.
If you want to play the standard game against a less than perfect engine, SF8 slips about 2/3 moves per game with a mate depth of 18 moves or more. Rybka or LC0 can't play the endgame at all. (That assumes you don't give them tablebases of course.)
May 16, 2022
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#34
newbie4711 wrote:
Well, I would start from this position. And it seems to be easy to regroup the pieces.
Bd3 is not he best move here (it wins in 20 moves with perfect play), Bh7 is the best move, it wins in 18 moves.
May 16, 2022
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#35
MARattigan wrote:
@64board
"I know the following link is not an answer but it could help you in finding an answer."
I would guess a more traditional analysis along the lines sometimes found in endgame manuals might be of more help.
I'll look at the problem and post one later.
Re #32.
Glad to see you found someone to play against.
I'm not surprised at the number of fails.
Chessgames.com used to have a collection of games that finished up in KBNK; all players 2500+. Sixteen games and two fails from winning positions. That didn't include the famous fail by women's world champion Ushenina. (The collection is still there but the fails have been removed, possibly to spare some players' blushes.)
Also worth noting that the analyses of what you call the W method (Philidor's method) and Delétang triangles that are generally available include no positions of mate depth exceeding 20, whereas the average mate depth in the standard game is 27 moves and the maximum 33. I would guess the maximum in OP's game would exceed 50.
By the way it's no use practising OP's game against an engine as I pointed out earlier. See this game against SF14.
If you want to play the standard game against a less than perfect engine, SF8 slips about 2/3 moves per game with a mate depth of 18 moves or more. Rybka or LC0 can't play the endgame at all. (That assumes you don't give them tablebases of course.)
Forgive my ignorance, what is OP?
May 16, 2022
0
#36
MARattigan wrote:
@64board
"I know the following link is not an answer but it could help you in finding an answer."
I would guess a more traditional analysis along the lines sometimes found in endgame manuals might be of more help.
I'll look at the problem and post one later.
Re #32.
Glad to see you found someone to play against.
I'm not surprised at the number of fails.
Chessgames.com used to have a collection of games that finished up in KBNK; all players 2500+. Sixteen games and two fails from winning positions. That didn't include the famous fail by women's world champion Ushenina. (The collection is still there but the fails have been removed, possibly to spare some players' blushes.)
Also worth noting that the analyses of what you call the W method (Philidor's method) and Delétang triangles that are generally available include no positions of mate depth exceeding 20, whereas the average mate depth in the standard game is 27 moves and the maximum 33. I would guess the maximum in OP's game would exceed 50.
By the way it's no use practising OP's game against an engine as I pointed out earlier. See this game against SF14.
If you want to play the standard game against a less than perfect engine, SF8 slips about 2/3 moves per game with a mate depth of 18 moves or more. Rybka or LC0 can't play the endgame at all. (That assumes you don't give them tablebases of course.)
See below the famous failure from Ushenina, she played Nd1 which is not bad but she failed later (I would prefer Ne2 trying to bring the knight to c2 and white King to c3). It should be mate in 24 according to table bases. I'm going to try myself against the engines.
May 16, 2022
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#37
By the way concerning my question of how to play from a certain position, see a very detailed answer below.
https://support.chess.com/article/690-how-can-i-play-a-daily-game-from-a-custom-position
May 16, 2022
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#38
64board wrote:
...
Forgive my ignorance, what is OP?
I think it stands for "Original Poster"; the thread creator.
You can set up a position if you play a daily game - you just need to arrange a friend who's interested.
I expect OP might be interested, or if you don't mind waiting till next weekend, I could play a few games.