Queen vs Rook End Game (Why is it so hard to explain)

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sasadangelo

Hi All,

I studied so far the theory of several end games like:

* two rooks vs king

* queen vs king

* rook vs king

* two bishops vs king

* pawn vs king (win and draw)

and I am able to play them quite well. However, I am fighting to understand the Queen vs King end game. I found this end game a couple of time in my games. It's clear to me the Philidor position (white and black move) and I feel I can play this position quite well. The problem is that in a real game the probability to play the Philidor position is close to zero unless there is a method to go from a random position to the Philidor one.

Here start my questions:

1. Is there a way to go from a random position to the Philidor one?

2. Is there other critical position I must know other than the Philidor one? If so, why?

Before posting this message I saw a lot of video and I read a lot of docs but no one satisfied me. It seems that all video from a given position and they don't explain why that position is important.

Anyone can help?

For me question 1 is really important to understand this end game. The second question is due to all these video I have seen where they show these critical positions that doesn't make sense to me. 

justbefair

The endgames you list generally have straightforward methods:

* two rooks vs king

* queen vs king

* rook vs king

* two bishops vs king

* pawn vs king (win and draw)

 

Then you want to learn queen and king vs rook and king, which is much more difficult.  It has a method for the Philador position but you don't know how to achieve the Philador position.l

ljvankuiken

Unless you've already achieved the Philidor  position, this pattern can be quite complicated. Chess Fundamentals by Capablanca has some good material on the subject. One of the most comprehensive presentations was given on YouTube by Derek Grimmell. His intro video can be found at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pprz2pLBu6E.

goodspellr

I'm in the same boat.  I'm trying to learn Queen/King vs. Rook/King but having difficulty with positions that are not easily forced into the Philidor.  Most of the references I have found simply cover the Philidor and say "you want to try to force the defending king to the edge of the board until the pieces are arranged in the Philidor position."

 

One exception is Fundamental Chess Endings by Muller and Lamprecht.  They have some tips for how to transition an opponent's 2nd rank defense into a Philidor, and also some tips on how to transition an opponent's 3rd rank defense (supposedly the most complicated defense to overcome) into the 2nd rank defense.  However, their tips are far from comprehensive and I am yet to successfully use them to get all the way through the Queen vs. Rook part of the Endgames section on this website.

goodspellr

Also, to address your second question, there is a famous Queen vs Rook position from Ponziani that is a known draw (by eventual stalemate) if it is Black's turn to move.