12.Nd5? Was there a comeback?

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Avatar of Kingfisher

After realising my attack was doomed, I dismissed the game as lost and just went through the moves. Did I give it up too soon?


Avatar of calvinhobbesliker
two things: pay more attention to the game-ask"if i do this, what will he do?"and when your opponent playes a6 in the ruy lopez, you either trade on c6 or go to a4. the purpose of the ruy lopez is to pressure the knight that's defending the e pawn
Avatar of hondoham

i wonder what

13.Bg5 gives you

maybe 13..Nxb2 14.Qf3 (14..Bg4 seems like it would get 15.Bxf6 )

 

or maybe a 15. Qd2

 

you sacrificed 1 point in material to totally expose the king. seems like it must be winnable. 


Avatar of Markle

 

 I was looking at the same thing as hondoham, i think 13.Bg5 was worth looking at white doesn't need to worry too much about 14...Nxb2 as he can then play 15. Qf3and though white is still down material he still has an attack on the black king due to the uncoordinated black pieces.


Avatar of Kingfisher

13. Bg5 blocks the g file which is an important avenue of attack and doesn't work after Re6.

Qf3 is what might work better, but it also seems inferior after Re6. 


Avatar of Markle

 

 After 13.Bg5,Re6 14.dxc4, and white is still in the game


Avatar of Markle

 

 Black has a hard time getting his pieces to work together after 13.Bg5,Re6 14.dxc4, 14...c6 trying to drive the knight out of d5 doesn't work since 15.Qf3,cxd5 16cxd5keeps tha attack going after 16...Re8 17 Bxf6


Avatar of Kingfisher
Markle wrote:

 

 After 13.Bg5,Re6 14.dxc4, and white is still in the game


 With a piece down? 

 Guys, forget the attack. It failed because it was illconcieved and only a blunder from the opponent would of made it viable. What I'm looking for is a way to hold out after it's failure.


Avatar of Markle

 

 You asked for our opinion, all i'm saying is after 13.Bg5,Re6 14.dxc4 i will take the white side even a piece down since the black pieces are not very well placed. White will either win the knight on f6 after 14...Re8 or the rook on e6


Avatar of davidetal

chess teaches us about life, of course, and spitting the dummy is usually not a good idea, nor a good look. I should know; having done that too many times. Persistence is a prerequisite. 

17 b2-b3, and game on; after 18 Rd2 it's over, bar a blunder by your highrated opponent.


Avatar of Kingfisher

Another reason I didn't like Bg5 is that it opens the kings escape route at f8, which had to remain closed for the attack to succede.

I apreciate your input though, thanks.


Avatar of Markle

 

 I'm sorry i missed a move in there, but the fact remains that white is still in the game , the attack wasn't so much illconceived as it was misplayed , your move 13.Nxf6 was not the best .


Avatar of hondoham
Markle wrote:

 

 You asked for our opinion, all i'm saying is after 13.Bg5,Re6 14.dxc4 i will take the white side even a piece down since the black pieces are not very well placed. White will either win the knight on f6 after 14...Re8 or the rook on e6


"piece down" doesn't do it justice. Bishop for 2 pawns, wide open king. 

 

Then you look at some structural issues like the pinned f-pawn because f4 and then f5 or exf4 Rxf4 would also bring some power.   Cosmin is ranked much higher and will require bullying his open king side to fall.


Avatar of billwall

Interesting is 9.Ng6 and if 9...Re8, then 10.Be3 

 

10.Nxh6? looks wrong.  Perhaps 10.Be3 or 10.Bb3. 

 

Perhaps 12.Bg5 or 12.Qc1. 

 

13.Bg5 and 14.Qf3 looks like the best in this position. 

 

Perhaps 16.Qxg6 fxg6 17.b3 is slightly better. 

 

17.b3, then 18.Rad1 was better. 

 

18.Rfe1 holds out a little longer. 

 

19.a3?? loses.  At least try 19.Kxf1.


Avatar of davidetal
I think your attack was a great idea, actually...
Avatar of Kingfisher

9.Nf5 I  considered the possibility of exchange

Bxf5 exf5 Na6 Nd5 

The rest just proves me right, 12.Nd5 was the mistake that put me in a losing position.


Avatar of kolechess

No real analaysis to contribute though think the attack was badly executed and you gave in to early should always try and fight it out he had no clear forced wins against you.


Avatar of neneko

I think you're going for the plan a little early and try to build a attack where there isn't much possibility for it.

 8 Nh4 looks a bit weird to me. It puts your knight in a pretty awkward position. You should play something positional here. Look at the individual strengths and weaknesses of the pieces. Your knight at c3 is pretty weak 8 Nd5 fix that. You get a strong knight that black can't easilly remove unless he trade his own knight for it and after 8 Nd5 Nxd5 9 exd5 your position look alot better. Another option would be a simple developing move like Bd2 or Be3.

 

9 Nf5 isn't that good either. You wasted two moves to get to a position where black can make a winning trade. After 9 Nf5 Bxf5 10 exf5 blacks position looks better. Black would have control over the center.

 

9..Na5 is a blunder by black. When you see a weird looking move like this that seems to defy the norm you should always look into it. 10 Bd5 and the knight is stuck at that awkward position, black will have to do something about it. If black capture with 10 Bd5 Nxd5 after 11 Nxd5 you have a very strong knight.

 

10 Nxh6+ this starts the attack way too early. You'd have to get the knight at f6 away before the attack is even possible. 

 

 I think you just got a little too eager with the attack. Often when you find something you really want to play in chess like a nice attack or some beautiful sac and find that it doesn't quite work out in the end it's easy to think "I'll work that out when I get to it" wich is just tricking yourself.  Here the attack needed a bit more preparation to work out but with every move there's always the possibility that your opponent make a move that makes the whole thing impossible so you pushed it early. At least this was how it looked to me, I might be wrong but always make sure to plan any attack all the way to the end.

 

 

 

 

 

 


Avatar of davidetal
tonydal wrote: The suggested line 12 Qf3 does look pretty promising.  After 12 Nd5 he should've played 12... Nxd5, and White's attack seems to be failing.  After 12... Nxc4 though you should've played 13. Bg5, and after 13... Re6 14 Qf3 with serious threats.

 A great example of why we should always continue to look. 


Avatar of th3jamez
why play 3.Bb5 a6 then 4.Bc4?  just go 3. Bc4 other wise you are just wasting a move.