bc stockfish is dumb and stupid
Can sombody explain me why this is a brillant move?
Sort:
Dec 16, 2022
0
#3
WillemmelliW wrote:
https://www.chess.com/analysis/game/live/64960824701?tab=openings pls tell me why this is a brillant bischops move!
It's technically a sacrifice of the knight and since the bishop move is best or good, depending on depth, that's how the classification works currently.
Dec 16, 2022
0
#4
IHaveTheSauce wrote:
bc stockfish is dumb and stupid
Stockfish doesn't make the decision on what moves are classified; the review code used the evaluation though to decide.
Dec 16, 2022
0
#5
I think it is because white is forced to exchange the bishops. And this is good for black of two reasons: 1: if you have an advantage in Material it is nearly always good to reduce the amount of pieces on the board. 2: the white bishop is very active and the black bishop is not. So black exchange a not so good piece against a good piece.
I don´t think it has something to do with the knight, because this piece is lost in any case.
But for me, there is no "brilliant" move in this game, because brilliancy only comes from men, not from machines. And if the player do not know, how good this move is, it is not his brillancy.
Dec 16, 2022
0
#6
it is because of the reason that @Martin_Stahl gave:
it is technically a sacrifice, even though the knight on a1 can't really be saved... and sacrifices are often shown as brilliants by chess.com analysis
Dec 18, 2022
0
#7
I think the reason is because of the bad AI coding and too lazy to analyze. So sacrifices are often Brilliant ( even though it's not)
It would also be nice to know what bishop move we are talking about.
that bischop that made the brillant move!
justbefair schreef:
why is that brillant? how can you do that?
Dec 19, 2022
0
#12
WillemmelliW wrote:
justbefair schreef:
why is that brillant? how can you do that?
Several people already tried to explain to you why the move was called brilliant, even though everyone agreed it was not brilliant. Moving the bishop technically qualified as sacrificing your knight and any half-way decent sacrifice that is the best move or near-best (with the judgment standards based on your rating) is now called brilliant.
Here is the full Chess.com explanation:
How are moves classified? What is a ‘Blunder’ or ‘Brilliant’ and etc?
After each game, you'll see a list of all your moves in the game review, classified as 'Best' or 'Inaccuracy', or many other such classifications. How are these determined?
Move Classifications
Classifying moves is a mix of art and science. Where is the line between a good move and an inaccurate one? How is a blunder defined for a chess master compared with a new player? What matters more, going from +2 to +1 or from +0.7 to +0? What engine evaluation is needed for a position to be considered “winning”?
With ClassificationV2, Chess.com has moved to an “expected points” model, rather than strict evaluation differences, to answer these questions.
Expected points uses data science to determine a player’s winning chances based on their rating and the engine evaluation, where 1.00 is always winning, 0.00 is always losing, and 0.50 is even.
Basically, at 1.00 you have a 100% chance of winning, and at 0.00 you have a 0% chance of winning. After you make a move, we look at how your expected points (likely game outcome) have changed and classify the move accordingly. The table below shows the expected points cutoffs for various move classifications.
Table I: Move Classifications with their corresponding change in expected points boundaries. If the expected points lost by a move is between a set of upper and lower limits, then the corresponding classification is used.
| Classification | Lower Limit | Upper Limit |
| Best | 0.00 | 0.00 |
| Excellent | 0.00 | 0.02 |
| Good | 0.02 | 0.05 |
| Inaccuracy | 0.05 | 0.10 |
| Mistake | 0.10 | 0.20 |
| Blunder | 0.20 | 1.00 |
Special move classifications that use rules beyond expected points have also undergone improvements. This includes familiar classifications like Missed Win and Brilliant, as well as the new Great Move classification.
A Missed Win is when you miss an opportunity to capitalize on your opponent’s mistake and gain a winning position, and instead end up equal or worse. As with expected points, the engine evaluation needed to be in a winning, equal, or losing position will change along with a player’s rating.
Brilliant (!!) moves and Great Moves are always the best or nearly best move in the position, but are also special in some way. We replaced the old Brilliant algorithm with a simpler definition: a Brilliant move is when you find a good piece sacrifice. There are some other conditions, like you should not be in a bad position after a Brilliant move and you should not be completely winning even if you had not found the move. Also, we are more generous in defining a piece sacrifice for newer players, compared with those who are higher rated.
Great Move is a new move classification that is denoted by a single exclam (!). These are moves that were critical to the outcome of the game, such as going from losing to equal, equal to winning, or finding the only good move in a position. Similar to Brilliant moves, we are more generous on what we call a Great Move for new players compared with high-rated players.
Overall, the improved Move Classification system provides a tailored Game Review experience. The new definition of Brilliant and the Great Move category give you a way to identify and share the most interesting moments from your games. The expected points formula identifies the mistakes that matter most for your improvement.
Dec 19, 2022
0
#13
justbefair wrote:
WillemmelliW wrote:
justbefair schreef:
why is that brillant? how can you do that?
Several people already tried to explain to you why the move was called brilliant, even though everyone agreed it was not brilliant. Moving the bishop technically qualified as sacrificing your knight and any half-way decent sacrifice that is the best move or near-best (with the judgment standards based on your rating) is now called brilliant.
Here is the full Chess.com explanation:
How are moves classified? What is a ‘Blunder’ or ‘Brilliant’ and etc?After each game, you'll see a list of all your moves in the game review, classified as 'Best' or 'Inaccuracy', or many other such classifications. How are these determined?
Move Classifications
Classifying moves is a mix of art and science. Where is the line between a good move and an inaccurate one? How is a blunder defined for a chess master compared with a new player? What matters more, going from +2 to +1 or from +0.7 to +0? What engine evaluation is needed for a position to be considered “winning”?
With ClassificationV2, Chess.com has moved to an “expected points” model, rather than strict evaluation differences, to answer these questions.
Expected points uses data science to determine a player’s winning chances based on their rating and the engine evaluation, where 1.00 is always winning, 0.00 is always losing, and 0.50 is even.
Basically, at 1.00 you have a 100% chance of winning, and at 0.00 you have a 0% chance of winning. After you make a move, we look at how your expected points (likely game outcome) have changed and classify the move accordingly. The table below shows the expected points cutoffs for various move classifications.
Table I: Move Classifications with their corresponding change in expected points boundaries. If the expected points lost by a move is between a set of upper and lower limits, then the corresponding classification is used.
Classification Lower Limit Upper Limit Best 0.00 0.00 Excellent 0.00 0.02 Good 0.02 0.05 Inaccuracy 0.05 0.10 Mistake 0.10 0.20 Blunder 0.20 1.00Special move classifications that use rules beyond expected points have also undergone improvements. This includes familiar classifications like Missed Win and Brilliant, as well as the new Great Move classification.
A Missed Win is when you miss an opportunity to capitalize on your opponent’s mistake and gain a winning position, and instead end up equal or worse. As with expected points, the engine evaluation needed to be in a winning, equal, or losing position will change along with a player’s rating.
Brilliant (!!) moves and Great Moves are always the best or nearly best move in the position, but are also special in some way. We replaced the old Brilliant algorithm with a simpler definition: a Brilliant move is when you find a good piece sacrifice. There are some other conditions, like you should not be in a bad position after a Brilliant move and you should not be completely winning even if you had not found the move. Also, we are more generous in defining a piece sacrifice for newer players, compared with those who are higher rated.
Great Move is a new move classification that is denoted by a single exclam (!). These are moves that were critical to the outcome of the game, such as going from losing to equal, equal to winning, or finding the only good move in a position. Similar to Brilliant moves, we are more generous on what we call a Great Move for new players compared with high-rated players.
Overall, the improved Move Classification system provides a tailored Game Review experience. The new definition of Brilliant and the Great Move category give you a way to identify and share the most interesting moments from your games. The expected points formula identifies the mistakes that matter most for your improvement.
wow... this is great to see!
about the "you should not be completely winning even if you had not found the [sacrifice labeled as brilliant]", do you know if... that is still a thing? i feel like it has only applied in like M3 and stuff, but maybe I just overlooked something
Dec 19, 2022
0
#14
It also looks like the bishop blocked an opportunity to thwart any castling, which castling queen side and having nothing on the king side that could stop the pawns and rooks at the end was highly beneficial.
why was it brilliant though since either way black is completely winning it doesn't matter what they do? Would any move be considered a brilliant move in that position then?
Dec 19, 2022
0
#16
I would think completely winning is a different than being up a couple points of material
Dec 19, 2022
0
#17
IHaveTheSauce wrote:
why was it brilliant though since either way black is completely winning it doesn't matter what they do? Would any move be considered a brilliant move in that position then?
probably any move which is winning except a knight move, since that would make it not a 'sacrifice'
Dec 19, 2022
0
#18
CitadelTrill wrote:
I would think completely winning is a different than being up a couple points of material
what about it? the position is completely winning, why did you bring up 'a couple points of material'?
and i mean at different levels, people are able to capitalize on things differently, so winning means different things at said different levels. for example, for magnus or hikaru (or some super GM like that), +1 is winning for White, +2 is completely winning. They probably consider up two pawns as completely winning, but at least probably up three.
The person who said completely winning was an 1800 (rapid), so being up that many points in material (to where even after white reclaims the knight, they are still down an exchange and a pawn), it is (at least their version of) completely winning
is it that important
https://www.chess.com/analysis/game/live/64960824701?tab=openings pls tell me why this is a brillant bischops move!