"??Closed Position Strategy: Attack the Center or the King"

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YousefKhaled7

why c5 is better than g5 is it related to some concepts of strategy ?

because i see that i have space and better development so go and attack the king why wasting my time on c5!?

hampery
What you play
Rifleman7

Attack the center

playchessordie19

e6 is good for the Knight. g5 is not going to be easy to crash through and lets Black get some breathing room. Blockade, restrain and destroy as Nimzo would say.

wilecoyote1
I’m guessing g5 won’t lead to a desirable attack, bc after all the trades, Black’s remaining pieces will be open to defend, plus the king can probably now escape to f7 if he needs. What’s cool about c5 is that it’s not only a move that gets control of the center if trades occur, but if black denies trading, he might soon be in zugswang bc of how jammed his pieces are. I guess he could shuffle the rook, but you can then chip away at the queenside with all your pieces, bc the kingside isn’t falling anytime soon.
BIosse12

I think c5 is better because it is more aggressive and it attacks the queenside which is less developed than the kingside.

Thepasswordis1234

mine says Rcg1, preparing for g5

sndeww
YousefKhaled7 wrote:

why c5 is better than g5 is it related to some concepts of strategy ?

because i see that i have space and better development so go and attack the king why wasting my time on c5!?

if you're talking about playing as black, then you play c5 over g5 because g5 hangs a pawn for nothing.

if you are playing white, I'll need a lot of engine lines to demonstrate why white should play c5 over g5.

YousefKhaled7
كتب sndeww:
YousefKhaled7 wrote:

why c5 is better than g5 is it related to some concepts of strategy ?

because i see that i have space and better development so go and attack the king why wasting my time on c5!?

if you're talking about playing as black, then you play c5 over g5 because g5 hangs a pawn for nothing.

if you are playing white, I'll need a lot of engine lines to demonstrate why white should play c5 over g5.

i am playing as white and the engine says c5 then after dxc5 play g5 and that make me confused why not g5 anyway ?

sndeww
YousefKhaled7 wrote:
كتب sndeww:
YousefKhaled7 wrote:

why c5 is better than g5 is it related to some concepts of strategy ?

because i see that i have space and better development so go and attack the king why wasting my time on c5!?

if you're talking about playing as black, then you play c5 over g5 because g5 hangs a pawn for nothing.

if you are playing white, I'll need a lot of engine lines to demonstrate why white should play c5 over g5.

i am playing as white and the engine says c5 then after dxc5 play g5 and that make me confused why not g5 anyway ?

that makes me confused too but this is one of those things which I wouldn't worry about too much. g5 is clearly the idea.

Looking at it with the computer theres not much difference between the moves.

Compadre_J

It’s not confusing.

What the Engine is trying to teach you is the Art of Attacking Chess.

The example you have has actually captured several different ways to attack in chess.

—————————

Concept #1 - Is what I call the numbers game

What you have to do is count the # of attacks vs. the # of defenders.

This is the most basic form of attacking and it is considered to be the Bread & Butter of all successful attacks.

The goal is to overwhelm the opponents defenses by having at least 1 extra attack.

So let’s count!

White has 5 pieces attacking g5

Queen, Bishop, Knight, Rook, & h4 pawn

Black has 5 pieces defending g5

Queen, Bishop, Knight, f6 pawn, & h6 pawn

THE COUNT IS EVEN!

This means White doesn’t have enough Fire Power to actually break thru to devastate Black

The move g5 isn’t the Best move because your position isn’t ready, yet.

The Best move is to add more Attackers and build up the pressure even more till it reaches critical mass.

White can do the above by playing the move Rc1 to g1 which would give White 6 Attackers vs. Black 5 Defenders.

Can Black add a 6th defender?

NO! This means What ever move Black plays White will win the #’s game and crash thru with g5 afterwards.

—————————————

Now, Let’s take a step Back.

Let’s pretend you didn’t see the move Rc1 to g1.

Can White still win? Yes!

This brings us to a deeper level of attacking.

If Concept #1 is the Basic/Beginner level way of attacking, Than Concept #2 would be seen as an Intermediate level of attacking.

Concept #2 - Is what I call the Strategic Decoy.

The Strategic Decoy is a lot harder to pull off because it requires the right conditions in order for you to pull it off.

The Conditions needed are the following:

1) You need a Stale Mate to exist among several pieces in the position

2) You need a Mismatch to exist among the Non-Stale Mate pieces.

3) You need to Attack from different Flank/Angle

The position you have meets these conditions.

A Stale Mate is happening on g5 square.

5 Attackers vs. 5 Defenders

Pieces on White & Black side are being pinned down to the battle on the g5 square.

Queens, Dark Bishops, & Knights are in a stale mate.

White Rook & Black Rook have been caught up in the struggle.

Observe, Black Light Squares Bishop is not fighting for g5, but due to how the pieces got played the Bishop has been caught up in the commotion. It can’t really help with g5, but at same time it’s not free to move.

Now, Look at the Black & White pieces which are Free to move around and do stuff!

Black Rook on a8 is available + Knight on d7.

Black Rook on c2 is available + Knight on b3 + Bishop on d3

Do you see it?

The Mismatch among the non-participating g5 pieces which are moble.

3 vs. 2

We now attack on a New Flank trying to leverage the mismatch. The goal is to cause enough ruckus that it scares Black into dragging away pieces from the g5 fight to help with the “decoy attack” which would than give us a # advantage on g5 to break thru.

How do we do this Decoy Attack?

Starts with the pawn move c5.

Image the Knight on b3 landing on e6

It would fork Queen + Rook, but more importantly it would force Queen to move away from the defense of g5.

This is why these moves are better vs. g5 because you’re not ready for g5, yet.

Let’s say you play c5.

They take and you jump in with Knight.

They can’t allow your Knight on e6 so they will need to trade it off.

Either with Knight or Bishop.

If they take with Dark Bishop, That is basically Concept #2.

SDM2025chess
Compadre_J wrote:

It’s not confusing.

What the Engine is trying to teach you is the Art of Attacking Chess.

The example you have has actually captured several different ways to attack in chess.

—————————

Concept #1 - Is what I call the numbers game

What you have to do is count the # of attacks vs. the # of defenders.

This is the most basic form of attacking and it is considered to be the Bread & Butter of all successful attacks.

The goal is to overwhelm the opponents defenses by having at least 1 extra attack.

So let’s count!

White has 5 pieces attacking g5

Queen, Bishop, Knight, Rook, & h4 pawn

Black has 5 pieces defending g5

Queen, Bishop, Knight, f6 pawn, & h6 pawn

THE COUNT IS EVEN!

This means White doesn’t have enough Fire Power to actually break thru to devastate Black

The move g5 isn’t the Best move because your position isn’t ready, yet.

The Best move is to add more Attackers and build up the pressure even more till it reaches critical mass.

White can do the above by playing the move Rc1 to g1 which would give White 6 Attackers vs. Black 5 Defenders.

Can Black add a 6th defender?

NO! This means What ever move Black plays White will win the #’s game and crash thru with g5 afterwards.

—————————————

Now, Let’s take a step Back.

Let’s pretend you didn’t see the move Rc1 to g1.

Can White still win? Yes!

This brings us to a deeper level of attacking.

If Concept #1 is the Basic/Beginner level way of attacking, Than Concept #2 would be seen as an Intermediate level of attacking.

Concept #2 - Is what I call the Strategic Decoy.

The Strategic Decoy is a lot harder to pull off because it requires the right conditions in order for you to pull it off.

The Conditions needed are the following:

1) You need a Stale Mate to exist among several pieces in the position

2) You need a Mismatch to exist among the Non-Stale Mate pieces.

3) You need to Attack from different Flank/Angle

The position you have meets these conditions.

A Stale Mate is happening on g5 square.

5 Attackers vs. 5 Defenders

Pieces on White & Black side are being pinned down to the battle on the g5 square.

Queens, Dark Bishops, & Knights are in a stale mate.

White Rook & Black Rook have been caught up in the struggle.

Observe, Black Light Squares Bishop is not fighting for g5, but due to how the pieces got played the Bishop has been caught up in the commotion. It can’t really help with g5, but at same time it’s not free to move.

Now, Look at the Black & White pieces which are Free to move around and do stuff!

Black Rook on a8 is available + Knight on d7.

Black Rook on c2 is available + Knight on b3 + Bishop on d3

Do you see it?

The Mismatch among the non-participating g5 pieces which are moble.

3 vs. 2

We now attack on a New Flank trying to leverage the mismatch. The goal is to cause enough ruckus that it scares Black into dragging away pieces from the g5 fight to help with the “decoy attack” which would than give us a # advantage on g5 to break thru.

How do we do this Decoy Attack?

Starts with the pawn move c5.

Image the Knight on b3 landing on e6

It would fork Queen + Rook, but more importantly it would force Queen to move away from the defense of g5.

This is why these moves are better vs. g5 because you’re not ready for g5, yet.

Let’s say you play c5.

They take and you jump in with Knight.

They can’t allow your Knight on e6 so they will need to trade it off.

Either with Knight or Bishop.

If they take with Dark Bishop, That is basically Concept #2.

You don't have write all of that.

Players can use an AI like Copilot to know what the engine saying.

Compadre_J

Interesting what does the AI Copilot say?

Does it give a different take on the situation?

nurullah500

What

sndeww
SDM2025chess wrote:

Players can use an AI like Copilot to know what the engine saying.

LOL COPILOT

Compadre_J

Another Concept I didn’t mention due to having to go + my post was getting to long is Rapid Mobilization.

Concept #3 - Is similar to Concept #2, but it carries a follow thru design to Overwhelm and Exhaust the enemies defenses.

Concept #2 is trying to Decoy pieces away from the main area of Battle, but the goal is still the “main area” of battle.

Concept #3 is Attacking on a different Flank.

Then trying to use Space & Centralized pieces to Rapidly Shift the main stage of battle to see if Black can handle/defend the new Battle Ground.

So for example

If White plays c5 and mass trades happen on c5

pawn trade pawn

Knight trades Knight

Bishop trades Bishop

You will end with White Rook on c5.

Then White could trying playing moves like Qe1 + Rg2 to c3 to create an Alkehine Gun on the C file bearing down pressure on c7.

The goal would be to try and use White Space advanced + speed to shift battle grounds from 1 area to another in order to see if Black is able to keep up.

Having less space gives less mobility to coordinate defenses or attacks.

Thus, if a person Attacks 1 area and tries to over whelm it. Then shifts to another area to try and overwhelm the new area fast it can cause problems.

All the Shifting/Accelerating can cause the enemy to fall behind eventually causing them to come crumbling down due to not having adequate defensive #’s.

—————————

Again - These are just attacking concepts which exist in chess.

In this position, White really doesn’t need to get very creative in its attack vs. Black.

Concept #1 is winning.

All White has to do is play moves like Rc1 to g1 and that creates a numbers mismatch which will overwhelm Black.

I was just explaining why a move like c5 can work in this position.

crazedrat1000

The reasoning for such a move would go something like this...

a) black has too many pieces near or on the kingside, and the center is relatively fixed, so an attack will lead to a stalemate situation (this may not be true in this position, but it's what you'd need to believe to play c5)
b) your knight is a good defender of your king, and your other pieces are easily mobilized in that direction. With c5 the kingside / most of the center still remain closed... Blacks biggest threat to your king is queens knight / the DSB but both are liable to be traded off in the exchanges that follow. Blacks pieces are also very backed up already. Hence your king is safe despite pushing the c pawn / already having advanced his other pawns. 
c) with c5 you're sort-of opening up lines in the center, and you have some potential for getting a favorable pawn structure or pawn breaks there.

With 2 weaknesses attacks are more fourthcoming than with 1. 
But Optimissed made a good point that the position is too complex for us to say there is a "correct" answer.

Still, probably there is some benefit in contemplating why c5 is a viable option.

SDM2025chess

I am not saying that copilot is only the way. You can ask your coach or anybody who knows what the engine is saying.