Help Alison With Her Terrible Moves

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AlisonHart

This was a very painful loss......engine analysis indicates that I was pretty much screwed out of the opening, but the losing move looked so innocent! Here I don't really need a move-by-move so much as something more general: How do you go about calculating your opponent's sacrifices? Is there a point at which we simply say "we're human, we miss stuff" or do we try to calculate every potentially damaging sacrifice, no matter how silly it may look? How much time and energy should we dedicate to trying to keep ourselves from losing like this?

 

AlisonHart

PS - we might as well just call this thread "Help Alison with her terrible Sicilian repertoire" =P

bangalore2

Well, I think that it would be more reasonable to develop pieces, rather than play a6, which has no use in that sort of position. Also, Bxe6 is a thematic sacrifice--I'll try to find some games.

Irontiger
bangalore2 wrote:

Well, I think that it would be more reasonable to develop pieces, rather than play a6, which has no use in that sort of position.

...a6 is not "useless in that sort of position". It is a thematic move in the Sicilian.

It is true, however, that in that position 4...d5 was much better.

Inyustisia

how to go about saving energy on calculating the opponent's sacrifices: play something else that is not the najdorf.

in the najdorf traps and theoretical sacs involving Bxe6 or Nxb5 are par for the course

AlisonHart

...a6 plugs an important leak as black loses some control over b5 and d5 with the advance of the c pawn - control which cannot be replicated by the c8 bishop due to the fact that it will basically always be either the last minor piece to move or the first one traded. When one looks at the Najdorf for the first time, it seems like kind of a daft plan to put up this technical structural barrier before getting the minor pieces out, but the longer I play the Sicilian, the more I appreciate the importance of ...a6

 

But that doesn't mean it's always the right move, Alsion. 

Elubas

You do have to accept the risk though in playing moves like ...a6. Even in the najdorf, yes the move is justified, but from a practical standpoint, black can easily allow some big attack by white if he's not careful, some sort of sacrifice. If you don't keep white's attacking ideas in mind you may be sorry for having an underdeveloped position while your position comes under fire. Still I do sympathize with the pleasant feeling of playing positionally well motivated moves :)

Elubas

I didn't even look at the game at first but yeah that's pretty much what happened :) Hopefully you were able to experience the difficulties black can have when he's underdeveloped in a wide open position. When your rooks are on their starting squares, all your pieces are getting in the way, your king is trapped on a central file, it's just hard to defend even simple threats :) Sometimes your opponent will just attack a pawn or a piece with some really simple move and your position will be too disorganized to find a defense to it. To appreciate this you don't necessarily need to be able to calculate a forced mate for white.

SilentKnighte5
AlisonHart wrote:

PS - we might as well just call this thread "Help Alison with her terrible Sicilian repertoire" =P

http://www.chessvideos.tv/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9126

AlisonHart

Every time someone suggests "Play e5" I get inspired, go to live chess, and play e5.........and then my opponent plays the fried liver which I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE playing, and I remember that I love the Sicilian. I love building slowly - I love that it's complicated, I love that I always have options. I love that there is no end to the theory.

 

The closed Spanish is dear to my heart - one of my favorite positions - but I despise the Italian so much that I will not ever play e5 until my rating reaches a level where I can expect *anything* that isn't Bc4. 

AlisonHart

PS - I also HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE the King's Gambit

toiyabe
AlisonHart wrote:

Every time someone suggests "Play e5" I get inspired, go to live chess, and play e5.........and then my opponent plays the fried liver which I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE playing, and I remember that I love the Sicilian. I love building slowly - I love that it's complicated, I love that I always have options. I love that there is no end to the theory.

 

The closed Spanish is dear to my heart - one of my favorite positions - but I despise the Italian so much that I will not ever play e5 until my rating reaches a level where I can expect *anything* that isn't Bc4. 

If you enjoy theory, why not just learn the Na5 lines against Ng5?  It's a lot of fun crushing people who mindlessly play that move, trust me Wink

toiyabe

But I also prefer the SicilianCool...maybe play the Taimanov for a while?  

Elubas

Yeah Alison I wouldn't say you actually have to play e5 if you really don't want to. I mean, there are some arguments that it prepares you for open games, but in my case for example as a 1200 I could never meet e5 well but then found the french and it got me much more interested in chess. You can learn a lot in any chess game regardless of how it starts. The more important thing is playing positions in which you are more interested and comfortable. So if you want to get better at your sicilian positions, go for it.

AlisonHart

The mantra that e4 e5 is the only way for sub 1500s because it leads to open positions is thoroughly strange anyway....there's a reason the term 'Spanish torture' is used for closed Morphy defense positions, and it's not because of hack attacks. But, anyway, the quietest French defense position can explode into tactics at a moment's notice and the craziest Fried liver can settle into a dry endgame. Chess is fluid - things change quickly, and I think we should definitely be encouraging people to play what comes naturally to them and develop their own style. It's a good thing the chess coaches of the world haven't thought about the 3.e4 queen's gambit accepted, lest new players be encouraged to play THAT in every game...that thing is a wide open tactical knife fight start to finish.

 

The Sicilian is known for being explosive - and it is - but that explosiveness is also tempered (on the black side, at least) by deep, long-term planning...I like that there's a plan to get a superior center and work the queenside while flyswatting at white's attack. I feel like the plan in ...e5 is just 'instant equality' - a noble goal, to be sure, but games below ~1700 aren't really decided by the GM standard of 'white is better here' anyway.

 

Oh, and thanks for the tip on my loss - I did jam the pieces together a little more tightly than I meant to....I always think I'll have time to untangle later...but the Sicilian is explosive, and it went *boom*.

Inyustisia

i don't believe in the e5 mantra. that said, a certain book on the najdorf was called "the sharpest sicilian" for a reason...

not that you should abandon the najdorf (or maybe you should, idk) but did you already also take a look at some other sicilian systems, like the kan and the taimanov? in the najdorf you just have to admit that sometimes the theory will go over your head and you will lose the eventual "book" miniature every once in a while.

Elubas

"But, anyway, the quietest French defense position can explode into tactics at a moment's notice and the craziest Fried liver can settle into a dry endgame. Chess is fluid - things change quickly"

Yes, this is a very good point, I agree.

joyntjezebel
Some comments on your last game Alison.
 
On move 5   I think the best move here is N-c6.It develops and is a move that will certainly be useful.  d5 moves the pawn a 2nd time and a6 can be played later if needed.  Its not nescessary now, and may prove superfluos if white does not transpose into something like an open sicilian with an early d4.

On move 10 I like the computers move.  From b6 the Q prevents white advancing his f pawn [though that won't last long] and guards d6 which proves very important.

If you are going to play the sicilian, you will get games like this.  Black has more chances of winning the game than many openings, but can easily  lose catastrophicly.

And on the fried liver- if you are allowing the fried liver attack you are playing a refuted opening.  Black should stear for the guicano piano if feeling peaceful [though its not nescessarily that quiet] or gambit a pawn [or sometimes the exchange] in the 2 Knights.
 
 
 
 
SilentKnighte5
AlisonHart wrote:

Every time someone suggests "Play e5" I get inspired, go to live chess, and play e5.........and then my opponent plays the fried liver which I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE playing, and I remember that I love the Sicilian. I love building slowly - I love that it's complicated, I love that I always have options. I love that there is no end to the theory.

 

The closed Spanish is dear to my heart - one of my favorite positions - but I despise the Italian so much that I will not ever play e5 until my rating reaches a level where I can expect *anything* that isn't Bc4. 

Black has to allow the inferior fried liver.  The Ng5 attack in and of itself is not the Fried Liver.

Playing slow, closed positions so you can avoid tactics is no way to go through chess life.

I think there's a reason why low class players have trouble playing the Sicilian.  It's not intuitive for their level of chess understanding.  And playing the White side IS.  katar covers that in the video I linked.  

SilentKnighte5

And who is afraid of the King's Gambit?  Fischer claimed it was busted 50 years ago! :)