Is this end position winning?

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Avatar of chess102410

It was the last round of the tournament and I had 4 out of 6 games and was very tired. Here, I think White is winning but my opponent managed to convince me that this was a drawn position.

Avatar of AndyClifton

Yep, that should be a win.

Avatar of chess102410

How would I win it ? 

Damn,I feel upset now! ( I have no right to feel upset really. There was nothing to lose by at least giving this position a go in the tournament. In fact, I always tell myself that if you're not sure whether you can win or draw, play on until you can recognise so. This was always reinforced by the fact that my opponent offered me a draw, which should have made me suspicious. At any rate, the mentality before a game and during a game is always different.... )

Avatar of AndyClifton

When you say he "managed to convince" you that it was a draw...is that your euphemistic way of saying that you played it out and couldn't win?  Or are you saying that he actually talked you into it being a draw and you guys halved the point on move 26?

Avatar of waffllemaster

How would you win?

Just wondering, do you know the winning idea for this position?



Avatar of chess102410

We halved it out at move 30. He convinced me of the draw on move 30 itself.

Avatar of chess102410

Wow! Gee, thanks wafflemaster!

Now, let me see if I've gotten you. 
I believe what you're tryinh to tell me is that without the Bishops, White is winning and I agree. It is all very simple. We push the White King to the Queenside, get a passed pawn there. Then, of course Black's King will also be at the Queenside. At the opportune moment, we will sacrifice the (a/b) passed pawn and march our White King to gobble up the Kingside pawns. The rest should be pretty simple. 

Trouble is, why would Black trade Bishops?!

Avatar of waffllemaster

Yes, that's the idea, and it's not different with same colored bishops (if he avoids the trade as he should).  Ideally you'll create a passed pawn and when his pieces are forced to stop it from queening you can go over to the kingside and win his pawns.

The only difference that comes to mind is if you get a position like this, where your passed pawn is neutralized and you can't go to the kingside (or even attack any of his pawns with your bishop) so it's just a draw.


To avoid that kind if situation, try to avoid getting the kingside structure totally stale (no pawn breaks) and be careful when pushing the pawn in front of your king.

Avatar of chess102410

Yes, that's why I thought it was a draw. However, my idea is similiar to yours (except of course I have no c-pawn in the position ! Tongue Out) One question though, isnt' it a draw even if the position was like this:

 

Avatar of Gambitknight
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Avatar of chess102410

That is, why is the structure of the kingside pawn so important? Shouldn't it be a trival consideration?

Avatar of Scottrf

If you weren't sure, why allow a draw in this position? That's a bigger concern than technical knowledge.

Avatar of chess102410

Yes, that was just plain stupidity on my part. 

Avatar of AndyClifton

(Btw it looks like 19 Qxb7 would've won.  If 19... Qe8 20 Nd6 Qd7 21 Qxd7 Nxd7 22 Nf5.)

Avatar of chess102410

Wow! 

Very nice!

Avatar of waffllemaster

Oh, well, yes, in this case it doesn't make much of a difference.  That's just what came to mind for some reason.  The pawns on light squares make black feel more comfortable :p

Also you're right, there's no way you would have a c pawn heh.

Avatar of TheGreatOogieBoogie

Yep it's a win, although not trivial because of the black king's activity.  Don't rush and remember to use the principle of two weaknesses.  If you spread out the defense then your candidate passed b-pawn will be more decisive.  Think in terms of plans, not concrete variations.  The clear and obvious goal is the creation of a passed b-pawn so b4! is a clear candidate. 

Avatar of AndyClifton

Especially when it's got an exclam after it.

Avatar of Scottrf

Yeah but when you see a good move, look for a better one. Perhaps there's a !! move.

Avatar of chess102410

Hi. When I got home, I started to analyze this and I was just wondering, is it better to place the White's kingside pawns on dark squares or on light squares? 

I wanted to first create a passed b-pawn as mentioned but this is easier said than done. I tried several means. The White Bishop is well placed on e3 as it eyes c5 and I was thinking of b4 but I was scared to put my pawns on dark squares (although sooner or later, I eventually have to do this.)

Thanks very much!

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