Were we right to draw?

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saikotiq

I have a lot of difficulty deciding whether the position is drawn or not especially when there is still a lot of material on the board. In this game, my opponent was a pawn ahead, but neither of us could see a way forwards, so we agreed to draw. Were we right, or could one of us have won? Or was it still to early to tell.

 I'd be interested to hear your comments.

 

 


papalouie
My first impressions without going through the moves is that black has the queen side pawn advantage. I would push the a and b pawns to the point whites a pawn would have to take the b pawn  then black would put the rook behind the a pawn to push forward. It may get down to the point where white king and rook can defend that side but after exchanges black king may have time to enter on queen side and win the c pawn. This is all conjectures until proven by solid mental calculations.
Clavius
Your passed f pawn ties down the Black King but your backward d pawn ties down one of your pieces.  My computer played this position against itself and after 30 moves by each side the position had hardly changed.  A draw seems right.
likesforests

Clavius> My computer played this position against itself and after 30 moves by each side the position had hardly changed.

 

Computers aren't particularly good at endgames. That's why we feed them tablebases--so they can play the most common ones like God. In non-tablebase positions (like this) their technique is often lacking. It looks like a draw, but if Fritz can err and miss the draw (2...a5=, for example), so can class players, so White should have played on a bit.

 

 

 

 


x-5058622868

Were those the best moves for black?? I thought black looked better.

 

Oh wait, white has a passed pawn on f5. White could be better because of that. 


saikotiq
Thanks to all for comments so far. On balance, I think the draw is still looking OK, although I know we wouldn't have played quite like the computer progs! As black, I would not have pushed the queen side pawns due to the possibility of opening up the closed position and maybe losing. If I had managed to get one through, I'm sure the white rook+king could have stopped it before long. Similarly, I would not have been looking to take the a- pawn.
Frankdawg
papalouie wrote: My first impressions without going through the moves is that black has the queen side pawn advantage. I would push the a and b pawns to the point whites a pawn would have to take the b pawn  then black would put the rook behind the a pawn to push forward. It may get down to the point where white king and rook can defend that side but after exchanges black king may have time to enter on queen side and win the c pawn. This is all conjectures until proven by solid mental calculations.

if the black king goes toward the C5 pawn what is stoping the F5 pawn?


ChessMate12
Frankdawg wrote: papalouie wrote: My first impressions without going through the moves is that black has the queen side pawn advantage. I would push the a and b pawns to the point whites a pawn would have to take the b pawn  then black would put the rook behind the a pawn to push forward. It may get down to the point where white king and rook can defend that side but after exchanges black king may have time to enter on queen side and win the c pawn. This is all conjectures until proven by solid mental calculations.

if the black king goes toward the C5 pawn what is stoping the F5 pawn?


I agree. The F5 would be well on its way. It's fair to draw here, but I think I would have played a few more moves.....


demuxer

White has to play owning a, b and c files!!!  the black rook only can follow

you were luck he agreed :P


Paunescu
espesially because it was so close u should play... it whould be an interesting game. after this thinking u should draw at the begining, it's not even a pawn more, it's closer than that :) sry 4 my english
silentfilmstar13
I think you were right to draw.  Your opponent, on the other hand, had some major winning chances.  He should have tried to trade rooks on b4 after Kd2 and Kc3.  You'd be pretty well screwed after that.
likesforests

silentfilmstar13> He should have tried to trade rooks on b4 after Kd2 and Kc3.  You'd be pretty well screwed after that.

 

The antidote to 1.Kd2 is 1...Ra4!


saikotiq
demuxer wrote:

White has to play owning a, b and c files!!!  the black rook only can follow

you were luck he agreed :P


 I can't see how white 'owned' the a,b,c files. My intention would have been to set up a pawn block formation on those files.


saikotiq
Paunescu wrote: espesially because it was so close u should play... it whould be an interesting game. after this thinking u should draw at the begining, it's not even a pawn more, it's closer than that :) sry 4 my english

 We had already played a few moves prior to this and got nowhere! We looked forward to a new beginning Laughing !


Azures

I would not accept a draw at this point.  Playing your pawns with King support can be tricky and quite elusive.

 

That said, the only way to progress the game is to push the issue at some point.  You can't simply play your pieces as if on a carousel.  Confrontation and/or tradeoffs is necessary...


silentfilmstar13
likesforests wrote:

silentfilmstar13> He should have tried to trade rooks on b4 after Kd2 and Kc3.  You'd be pretty well screwed after that.

 

The antidote to 1.Kd2 is 1...Ra4!


 I was thinking Rb1 first.  It seems to negate the threat of ...Ra4 while preparing to offer the trade on b4.


Joshuwar

This is interesting... thanks for all the comments, everybody. difficult without the rest of the game there, but I remember feeling that I had won the extra pawn with some luck, but in this situation, against a better player, he seemed to inexorably anticipate all of my little gambits, and I felt lucky to draw!

That said, for the sake of interest, I agree it would have been better to have played on a few moves... see what mistakes I could make etc etc...


saikotiq
Joshuwar wrote:

This is interesting... thanks for all the comments, everybody. difficult without the rest of the game there, but I remember feeling that I had won the extra pawn with some luck, but in this situation, against a better player, he seemed to inexorably anticipate all of my little gambits, and I felt lucky to draw!

That said, for the sake of interest, I agree it would have been better to have played on a few moves... see what mistakes I could make etc etc...


 Thank you for your kind words. Mistakes can lead to unlikely endgame scenarios, it is true. In the interests of perfection, I believe we were right to stop where we did.  Although I think a reasonable case has been made for continuing a little further. Next time this crops up we'll allow for that little spark of error Wink


grolich
I don't see a way for either side to make progress... Still, white could have tried to wind blakc up a bit... But all it requires from black's side is one or two good moves (find the right moment for ...a5 and don't forget that the king is  locked as a blockader before doing anything too crazy).