Why is 10. O-O considered a brilliant move

chillbro123

Hi, just had one of the best games I've ever played in a 30 minute, with the Traxler counter-attack. I know it is a really sharp line, and if any mistakes are made the tables immediately turn, but I've had a lot of fun studying it recently. I was just wondering why is 10. O-O considered a brilliant move and not a best move like the others. I played it because I saw it in a few of the games I studied for the traxler in the king march line. Is there another move here that could maintain the same equality?

Also is it worth it for me to study the Traxler counterattack at this level?

LettuceMask

I play 4...d5 instead, going for the Polerio. I think it has a higher level of reach. 

chillbro123
LettuceMask wrote:

I play 4...d5 instead, going for the Polerio. I think it has a higher level of reach. 

is the polerio defence an easier line to play?

LettuceMask

I prefer it over fried liver stuff, and I am still learning but people who know what they are doing usually play Bd3. Qf3 can be tricky and I often forget that line. 

 

 

SNUDOO

It's engine eval. Don't expect it to make sense.

On a unrelated note, white should not allow complications like that... Just grab the pawn and go!

 

m_connors

Accept the Brilliant evaluation; they are very rare. Consider it a gift . . .

pfren

10...0-0 and 10...d5 are both satisfactory for Black (actually one transposes to the other line with optimal play), and way more than what he should expect in the Traxler. 

5.Nxf7? is a bad move- end of story. Either 5.Bxf7+ or 5.d4! is the way to go.

chesschesskid

Yes this is a crazy line that leaves the king out in the open!

happysnake12345

???

DeepBlueFehx

Well, you save your rook, castle and pin the knight in the same move. I think it is brilliant.

Danny_Kaye
LettuceMask wrote:

I prefer it over fried liver stuff, and I am still learning but people who know what they are doing usually play Bd3. Qf3 can be tricky and I often forget that line. 

 

 

bishop goes to d3 on move 8 so the knight can later jump to e4.. 

 

 

Deranged

Castling on move 10 is a pretty brilliant move tbh. It's quite rare you castle into danger like that, but with the pin along the f-file, it's surprisingly safe for black.

Optimissed

It makes the assessment "brilliant" look pretty silly, doesn't it, since you played it because you saw it in other games. It means that no-one should take these assessments in any way seriously.

Just looking at it in my head for a minute it looks to me like 10....  d5 wins because after 11. Be2  ...Bg4+ 12. K g2 (forced) ... Qe4+ 13. Kf2 ... Bxe2 14. Qxe2 .... Qxh1 15. Ng5 (the only escape square) 0-0+ Ke3 and white's queen is lost.

If I'm right, and feel free to correct me, this means that white was lost in any case and so a quicker win via 0-0 isn't in any way brilliant. Although it's an attractive and obvious move, pinning white's knight and probably making black's win quicker, the moves after d5 are probably much easier to see, not being a computer, and that's a win of an entire queen for black, with a won game which looks far easier to plan.

chamo2074

Because it pins the knight, and it's just soo difficult to find if you don't know it, you have to see that the knight is pinned not to worry about the discoveries, and will still have to after unpin

Optimissed

d5 seems more direct and easier to plan the moves.

 

pfren
Optimissed έγραψε:

It makes the assessment "brilliant" look pretty silly, doesn't it, since you played it because you saw it in other games. It means that no-one should take these assessments in any way seriously.

Just looking at it in my head for a minute it looks to me like 10....  d5 wins because after 11. Be2  ...Bg4+ 12. K g2 (forced) ... Qe4+ 13. Kf2 ... Bxe2 14. Qxe2 .... Qxh1 15. Ng5 (the only escape square) 0-0+ Ke3 and white's queen is lost.

If I'm right, and feel free to correct me, this means that white was lost in any case and so a quicker win via 0-0 isn't in any way brilliant. Although it's an attractive and obvious move, pinning white's knight and probably making black's win quicker, the moves after d5 are probably much easier to see, not being a computer, and that's a win of an entire queen for black, with a won game which looks far easier to plan.

 

The way you analyse is funny at best.

You just give a sample line consisting of second rate moves with no branches, and you come to assumptions out of that.

10...d5 is best answered not by 11.Be2? but either by 11.Rh4, or 11.Kg2.

And your 11.Be2? Bg4+? (11...Qe4+ 12.Kf2 0-0 is correct and Black is better) is a poor move due to 12.Kg2 Qe4+ 13.Bf3, when white gets a big advantage.

 

Optimissed
pfren wrote:
Optimissed έγραψε:

It makes the assessment "brilliant" look pretty silly, doesn't it, since you played it because you saw it in other games. It means that no-one should take these assessments in any way seriously.

Just looking at it in my head for a minute it looks to me like 10....  d5 wins because after 11. Be2  ...Bg4+ 12. K g2 (forced) ... Qe4+ 13. Kf2 ... Bxe2 14. Qxe2 .... Qxh1 15. Ng5 (the only escape square) 0-0+ Ke3 and white's queen is lost.

If I'm right, and feel free to correct me, this means that white was lost in any case and so a quicker win via 0-0 isn't in any way brilliant. Although it's an attractive and obvious move, pinning white's knight and probably making black's win quicker, the moves after d5 are probably much easier to see, not being a computer, and that's a win of an entire queen for black, with a won game which looks far easier to plan.

 

The way you analyse is funny at best.

You just give a sample line consisting of second rate moves with no branches, and you come to assumptions out of that.

10...d5 is best answered not by 11.Be2? but either by 11.Rh4, or 11.Kg2.

And your 11.Be2? Bg4+? (11...Qe4+ 12.Kf2 0-0 is correct and Black is better) is a poor move due to 12.Kg2 Qe4+ 13.Bf3, when white gets a big advantage.

 

Thankyou for your corrections. Of course, in this case you're absolutely right, which makes up for the times in the past when I've been right. But yesterday was a difficult day for me in a number of ways so thanks. happy.png