The power of the Danish Gambit

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SoilentGreen

I'm a so-so player; my overall skill level is between 1200-1300. However, I've studied the Danish quite a bit, and my skill level with it is probably 1400-1500. The fact that black has few competitive options (and that very few players at my level know them) helps.

Here is a game where I completely steamrolled a guy. He apparently thought taking the defender of my e pawn and then capturing it was a great move. I quickly showed him the error of worrying about capturing pawns in this opening.

I don't want to sound like I'm gloating; I'm just a big fan of the Danish and the things it allows one to do. I redacted the opponent's name to avoid embarrasment and hard feelings.

 

Shivsky

Nice.

Used to have a lot of fun with the Danish.  Sharpens your tactics and trains you to go for your opponent's jugular on every single move.

However this game showcases Black's defensive attempts rather poorly. It looks like Black got steamrolled  because of highly questionable moves like Nxe4, Kd7 etc.

It would be really neat if you could post one of your Danish games where Black put up more of a fight. 

nbafan

I love the danish post more on theory and your games on it.

SoilentGreen
Shivsky wrote:

Nice.

Used to have a lot of fun with the Danish.  Sharpens your tactics and trains you to go for your opponent's jugular on every single move.

However this game showcases Black's defensive attempts rather poorly. It looks like Black got steamrolled  because of highly questionable moves like Nxe4, Kd7 etc.

It would be really neat if you could post one of your Danish games where Black put up more of a fight. 


I haven't been using the Danish online long (I wanted to study up first), so I've not really faced any real opposition to it on the computer. I'll post better games when I get some in.

 

As for theory, the best 5th move for black is d5. After that: 6. Bxd5 Nf6 7. Nc3 Nxd5 8. Nxd5 Nd2. This is the newer variation on the Schlessinger. The old variation had white sacking a bishop on f2 on the seventh move, leading to some wacky stuff that takes the queens off the board and leaves the material even. This gives black a bit of an advantage because of the queenside majority, which is a huge advantage at the grandmaster level. That's why it fell out of popularity. The new line I mentioned above is starting to make it popular again.

I was beaten with the Danish last night at my chess club after my opponent played d5, but he's a 1400+ player. Sadly, we didn't notate the game. Frown

tarikhk

I really like the move 11. Rxe4!

for example

Shivsky
SoilentGreen wrote:
heory, the best 5th move for black is d5. After that: 6. Bxd5 Nf6 7. Nc3 Nxd5 8. Nxd5 Nd2. This is the newer variation on the Schlessinger. The old variation had white sacking a bishop on f2 on the seventh move, leading to some wacky stuff that takes the queens off the board and leaves the material even. This gives black a bit of an advantage because of the queenside majority, which is a huge advantage at the grandmaster level. That's why it fell out of popularity. The new line I mentioned above is starting to make it popular again.

 

Very interesting ... will actually try that new line. I've actually practiced that "even material, black with Q-side majority" classical line a lot with some  success at blitz. 

tarikhk

here's a more critical line;

Gambitknight

Tarikhk: I like your RxE4!? idea.  However, on your first sequence, (involving  an immediate ...PxN), I think I prefer an in between move, QxP rather than the immediate BxR.  The mate threat forces black to defend, after which you can capture the rook anyway, without compromising your king safety with a massive hole down the g file.

crispus
[COMMENT DELETED]
crispus

black should have played something like this , what he/her did is crazy Laughing
honorflamingo

Openings like the Danish often make people feel like they are playing at a higher level.  In my opinion, the reason for this is that the Danish (as well as some other openings like it) offers white a clear plan.  It is often difficult for a weaker player to come up with a strong plan in more complicated openings, but here is it easy.  The bishops pressure the kingside, and white will attack there with everything he has.  The game will often be violent and short, regardless of who wins.

I must say that I am a little surprised that I haven't seen the thematic Qb3 from white in any suggestions yet.  In your game, it would have looked like this:

Azukikuru
crispus wrote:
black should have played something like this , what he/her did is crazy

... and in your line, white shouldn't play 6. cxd4 because of 6. ... Ng3+ ...

Conquistador

You guys still have not posted an even deadlier line which holds onto both pawns and white loses the endgame.  There is a refutation here which nobody plays.

SoilentGreen
jemptymethod wrote:

"The fact that black has few competitive options (and that very few players at my level know them) helps."

But you aren't really going to improve this way.  Plus I don't agree that black lacks options.  Backing up to move 3, 3...Qe7 is a tough nut to crack for White.  And ther are lots of other such lines that seriously question the soundness of the Danish.  Yes I'm sure it's good enough for your level.  But as you progress you had either better be ready for these better responses to the Danish, or to give it up entirely.


You weren't paying attention. I mentioned the fact earlier that I've played it against stronger players in person. I also play frequent games against Shredder and Fritz with it. I also went over the old and new Schlessinger lines, which are good for black. Almost no one knows them, though. Three 1800+ players at my club didn't.

At my level, it's just as important that I get practice playing against weaker players, as their moves, while weaker, may sometimes pose a bigger problem for me, as I won't be familiar with them. My club has a tounament the month after next, and it'll probably be split into two sections at the 1400 mark. I'll be in the lower section.  Studying ways of quickly tearing down weaker players may very well win me some money.

I also find among many chess players (including some on this board) an attitude that any opening that won't lead to a slow, drawn-out game is unworthy of their serious consideration. This, to me, seems sanctimonious and aristocratic.

Eebster
Conquistador wrote:

You guys still have not posted an even deadlier line which holds onto both pawns and white loses the endgame.  There is a refutation here which nobody plays.


There is no known refutation to the Danish Gambit, although there are strong options for black (The Schlechter Defnese being chief among them), and I seriously doubt there exists anything like you describe where black could hold onto both pawns. One pawn is plausible.

Conquistador

I laugh at you guys!  Play the Danish Gambit against me and I will show you.

Eebster
Conquistador wrote:

I laugh at you guys!  Play the Danish Gambit against me and I will show you.


I just challenged you to an unrated game. Time to show me your stuff.

vladamirduce
Eebster wrote:
Conquistador wrote:

I laugh at you guys!  Play the Danish Gambit against me and I will show you.


I just challenged you to an unrated game. Time to show me your stuff.


 I'm watching with anticipation!

Shivsky
vladamirduce wrote:
Eebster wrote:
Conquistador wrote:

I laugh at you guys!  Play the Danish Gambit against me and I will show you.


I just challenged you to an unrated game. Time to show me your stuff.


 I'm watching with anticipation!


Fight! Fight! Fire! Fire!

2023elo
tarikhk wrote:

I really like the move 11. Rxe4!

for example

6.d2 is a better move right?