Americans suck at chess...why?

Alexis de Tocqueville's answer:

"“As one digs deeper into the national character of the Americans, one sees that they have sought the value of everything in this world only in the answer to this single question: how much money will it bring in?”"

You are determining that all chess talent proceeds from genetics, and has nothing to do with the soil where it is cultivated. Hence, you must seek refuge in semantics. You offer a didtinction that is without a difference, and you offer it in opposition to the best research on the development of talent.

Americans do not "suck" at chess. Despite a strong anti-intellectualism that reduces our native potential, the United States offers itself as a new home for many of the world's best chess players; it also develops its own whether they were born here, migrated as babies, or moved later in life. 

I'm curious about some of the claims made in this thread

Concerning taxes, the US isn't the highest, but it's very close (remember that the US has a multitude of personal taxes: Federal Income, State Income, FICA, Property, Sales, added taxes such as on gasoline).  Possibly, if benefits that the couple higher-taxed countries give, such as national health care, which the US doesn't, are factored in, then the US may actually be the highest taxed nation or at least even closer.

Concerning the suggestion the US wins in chess Olympiad were a thing of ancient history: In 2012 we placed 5th, in 2010, 2010 ninth, 2008 third, 2006 third, in 2004 fourth.  Of course, not as high as those countries in which chess is nurtured, but in the top ten and usually the top 5.

I'm not certain how one might  define the term intellectualism or how one measures it in terms of an entire nation, but if one wants to use the availability of seats of knowledge and learning, according to the US  News, 12 of the top 20 universities in the world as in the USA.   9 of the top 26 libraries in the world are in the US.; 3 of the 10 largest libraries are in the US.   If we gauge intellectualism through the arts and sciences, it's interesting to note that the US has produced almost 3 times as many Nobel laureates (338) as the second most honored country (the UK with 118).  Only twice in that past quarter of a century has any country (the UK again) published more books than the US.  If one wants to look at the masses and make subject observations such as obsession with watching physical sports, Soccer and Cricket both far outstrip baseball and football, the games most American favor, in fans.  According to the CIA World Factbook, the US has a 99% literacy rate for both men and woman over 15.  Several countries have a rate between 99-100, but most developed countries parallel the US.  According to the Wall Street Journal, Sept. 2012,  the top 5 countries for % of population with college degrees (actually, tertiary education) are Canada, Israel, Japan, United States and New Zealand.   It looks to me as if the USA is doing alright intellectually compared to any nation in the world

Suggest some measure then, rather than your own subjective opinion.

@batgirl

The claim that anti-intellectualism pervades American culture was backed up with a citation that you fail to reference. Data on number of degrees does not address the point. Your claim that we spend poorly the little that we collect in taxes is an interesting one, but you are shifting ground. Taxes were low in the United States thirty years ago, and they are much lower now. Despite this, we outspend the rest of the world in military spending. Such priorities are quite consistent with a focus on military-type sports like American football. Heck, sports announcers even call quarterbacks "generals".

The claim that 99% of Americans are "literate" is an interesting measure that fails to address the level of literacy indicated. More detail is necessary. Research has shown that the percentage of Americans who manifest such skills as "comparing viewpoints in two editorials" is shockingly low.

A statistically significant change does arise, however, in the percentage of American adults who read at the Proficient level. They slipped from 15% in 1992 to 13% in 2003.

http://www.nea.gov/research/ToRead.pdf

The decline in proficiency is consistent with other appaling evidence of anti-intellectualism: widespread disbelief in mainstream science (creationism and denial of climate science). Not surprisingly, this gross ignorance stems from the same cultural forces identified by Richard Hofstadter as leading causes of American anti-intellectualism.

Where can you show that taxes in the USA are low?  By any standard I could find, our taxes are among the highest. Saying they're low doesn't cut it. The claim that America in anti-intellectual by citing the name of a book doesn't cut it either. I couldn't come up with a single objective measurement that supports such a claim.  While I'm a pacifist, I can't see the connection between militarism and intellectualism.  Chess, if nothing else, is analogous to war. Hoynck infers, as I understood the comment, that somehow the tertiary education here might be inferior than that elsewhere, yet the colleges here are among the highest ranked in the world.

some of the colleges are among the best. most definitely are not. and close to half of the students at these great universities are not even american. 

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/10/focus-4

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/08/14/science/sciencespecial2/20050815_EVO_GRAPHIC.html

Thanks for the graph.  I'd be curious to know what basis the compilers used to determine that data.  They show USA paying 18% tax.  I'm middle-icome and my actual federal tax alone is around 21%, my actual state tax around 6%.  That's already 27% of my income, not 18%.   Property tax is about 2% of my income. Sales tax, I can't determine but it's 7% of everything I spend.  Heath insurance takes another 12% of my income (as opposed to countries with national health care included in their tax).   So, I find those statisitcs misleading. 

Coming from a country that has Bill O'Reilly as an actual presenter and Mitt Romney as a presidential candidate I'm not surprised they don't excel at chess :) I can't wait to see the replies I get.

In Cuba they played because there is no money to spend at all, and the soviet send some chess boards 50 years ago...so yes, it is because of that "culture climate" as you suggest ...cultute that comes directly from...the nasty weather of the USSR... just so...

if the wether is nice and you have some pocket money...NO CHESS at all..no chess in Las Vegas etc...well, no chess anywhree where you can have some "fun"...(a lot of chess in the Netherlands, by the way...and of course, i love chess and the Netherlands, been there many times..)

haha modestmouse surely you are not so ignorant

How to relate statistics to chess-performance is awkward. One approach would be:

• USA with over 300,000,000 people represents approx 4.5% world.
• USA chess representation in top 100 players world list is around 4.0% (Ziryab states that this is fine since holding US passport alone is sufficient to be considered American.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population

http://ratings.fide.com/top.phtml?list=men

Chess.com site stats say:

• USA has 2,683,000 approx 40.5% of registered members.
• USA average rating = 1272 (rank = 210 approx by rating)
• Site average overall (turn-based-standard) = 1370

http://www.chess.com/members/member_countries?sortby=avg_rating

http://www.chess.com/echess/players

Dear batgirl,

Of course in every single country that i know there is nothing as a single state tax....every one has a myriad of taxes that could easily take you a working life to discover...and so every single day of your life (continental life here in Europe) you are paying a multitude of taxes that most people will never really know they are paying.

just check it out how many things are "free" in Europe...Health , education, so much cultural life...and, as here the money does not grow in the trees, you must asume that they are notr really free..it's your unkwon(in adition to your yearly BIG payment) taxes that are paying for it...even if you dont like it or you are already paying for a private doctor, university etc...

not harsh critic of the european model, it isjust making clear the money you in the US spend as you wish and the way it goes in many other countries....wonderland is still to be found..

You could check their source (kinda SOP for a historian).

http://www.kpmg.com/US/en/Pages/default.aspx 

Actually, John Smith was British. (Immigrant) Americans today are more diverse than they were in 1607.

I'd like to see Red Cloud, Fools Crow, or some other indigenous American at the top of the charts. Nonetheless, I embrace those Americans who excel and reject your xenophobia that limits notions of Americanism to Anglo stock.

The U.S. is a fairly low tax nation, among OECD countries.

We have a high nominal corporate tax rate, but who actually pays it?

If people (including many great Russian chess players) flock here to become citizens, why in the world can't we claim them as Americans???

This thread was started by a "modest mouse," dressed rather immodestly.  Go figure. 

If zborg and I are on the same side, then the other side really has no place to stand.