Anyone else have zero to little talent at the game?

Sort:
Avatar of pfren
Thee_Ghostess_Lola έγραψε:

u couldnt be further from the truth.

 

OK, I have to admit that you are so dumb that you would never go somewhere- even with hard work.

Avatar of pfren
ChessVesuvius έγραψε:

Fischer once said that he didn't have to work as hard as other players. I take Fischer's word for it.

 

Fisher once said he would win the Women's World Champion with knight odds (which of course is nonsense), but he never claimed YOUR nonsense.

Avatar of llamonade2
kindaspongey wrote:
llamonade2 wrote:
1_a31-0 wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
Ziryab wrote:

Everything I know about the game is a product of hard work reading books. I have no natural ability.

Do we have a way to know that there aren't others who would have more difficulty with the same books?

I know how to read. That's becoming a rare skill in today's society.

I have to agree....

but what kindaquotey  means is that some people may have difficulty understanding the content of the book.

Content like forks and passed pawns?

There really aren't any difficult concepts in chess... otherwise you wouldn't have super strong kids. What those kids have (among other things) is a good memory for positions and good calculation habits. ...

Is there reason to believe that these habits can be acquired with equal ease by everyone? You think that there are no examples of a kid learning something difficult?

Your questions are low effort that I can't be bothered addressing the points you're trying to bring up.

Avatar of llamonade2
ChessVesuvius wrote:
pfren wrote:

There is no such thing as talent in chess, anyway- it is just an excuse for people who are too lazy to do some work.

Fischer once said that he didn't have to work as hard as other players. I take Fischer's word for it.

Fischer famously claimed that while others gave only 2% of their energy to chess, he gave 98%.

Fischer (like Kasparov) was also famous for his incredibly hard work.

Avatar of llamonade2
dpnorman wrote:

I don't know what chess talent means. I don't think I have it if it is a thing. 

The only secret to success I know is hard work. 

I think of talent as a multiplier for work.

If you take 1000 humans, and not only select similar people, but give them a similar environment. Same training and materials, same daily routine, that sort of thing.

After 1 year the distribution of their skill will look like a bell curve. Not just for chess but for anything. The ones at the top have what's commonly thought of as "talent."

Hard work is necessary, but it's obvious some get more out of their work than others. Some of that is due to not working correctly, or not being in a good environment, but some of it is just genetics. People's brains are different, and it's silly to pretend otherwise.

Avatar of Thee_Ghostess_Lola
pfren wrote:
Thee_Ghostess_Lola έγραψε:

u couldnt be further from the truth.

 

OK, I have to admit that you are so dumb that you would never go somewhere- even with hard work.

u dont hafta admit it. u just hafta say it.

Avatar of PSV-1988
pfren wrote:
ChessVesuvius έγραψε:

Fischer once said that he didn't have to work as hard as other players. I take Fischer's word for it.

 

Fisher once said he would win the Women's World Champion with knight odds (which of course is nonsense), but he never claimed YOUR nonsense.


Fischer once said that he was concerned about the Jews driving elephants to extinction because the trunk of an elephant reminds them of an uncircumcised [...].

Avatar of kindaspongey
Ziryab wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
Ziryab wrote:

... I would not call [capacity for hard work] the "only" quality. Rather, it is the most vital.

Magnus Carlsen, for example, clearly has some intellectual gifts that he developed into chess skill. But, without the intense work that he puts in, you would not know his name. He claims to have spent time studying 10,000 games. This study gives him an enormous array of tools for finding the strongest moves in the new positions that he encounters at work.

Without some capacity for memory, going through 10,000 games might have been a futile exercise. 

What does it mean to say that a quality is “the most vital”? Is the engine more vital to a car than the gas tank?

Yes. 

Cars run on several sorts of fuel. None run without an engine. ...

I did not ask about the sort of fuel. I asked about the gas tank.

Avatar of autobunny
Ziryab wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
Ziryab wrote:

Everything I know about the game is a product of hard work reading books. I have no natural ability.

Do we have a way to know that there aren't others who would have more difficulty with the same books?

I know how to read. That's becoming a rare skill in today's society.

Couldn't read what he wrote but the bunny agrees.  Thank goodness for voice assistants.

Avatar of kindaspongey
Ziryab wrote:

… There were many factors that led to European success over indigenes—diplomacy, organization, technology, ... The decisive factor, however, was disease. ... the indigenous peoples of the Americas remain wholly surrounded and subordinate with a fraction of the population they had in 1500.

Would there have been much conquest if only one European had come?

Avatar of kindaspongey
IM pfren wrote (~9 hours ago):  There is no such thing as talent in chess, anyway- it is just an excuse for people who are too lazy to do some work.
IM pfren wrote:
kindaspongey έγραψε:

Would it be appropriate to explain your below-GM title as laziness?

Certainly yes - on top  of few other things.

What if there had been the few other things without the laziness?

Avatar of Henry-Wood

You have to have an IQ above 100 to get to 4 digits

Avatar of llamonade2

Sure if you absolutely can't get a 1000 rating there's probably something pretty off, but I'm sure there are plenty of titled players within 1 SD below 100.

Avatar of autobunny
kindaspongey wrote:
IM pfren wrote:
kindaspongey έγραψε:

Would it be appropriate to explain your below-GM title as laziness?

Certainly yes - on top  of few other things.

What if there had been the few other things without the laziness?

The power of spongey compels pfren. 

Avatar of autobunny
ghost_of_pushwood wrote:

Will pfren be the next one to enter into the Debate Unto Death with The Sponge?

Can pfren's talent or hard work match spongey's experience? 

Avatar of Lucas_Bomfim

I have over 800 games and less than 800 rating. Maybe I should just stop playing and do like Tarrasch told, just study instead of practicing.

Avatar of llamonade2

As they say, practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

If you practice mistakes it only makes it harder to improve tongue.png

Avatar of kindaspongey

"... In order to maximize the benefits of [theory and practice], these two should be approached in a balanced manner. ... Play as many slow games (60 5 or preferably slower) as possible, ... The other side of improvement is theory. ... This can be reading books, taking lessons, watching videos, doing problems on software, etc. ..." - NM Dan Heisman (2002)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627084053/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman19.pdf

Avatar of st0ckfish
llamonade2 wrote:

As they say, practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

If you practice mistakes it only makes it harder to improve

Yes....there was this analogy my violin teacher used (I quit violin shortly after, but that's irrelevant to the topic tongue.png)

Anyways, playing violin (or a similar skill) is like running a race. WIth proper practice, you advance further in the race -- closer towards the end goal. Practicing incorrect is like running in the opposite direction of the starting line -- and soon, you'll be worse off than the people who haven't moved off the starting line. Practicing with a tuner or metronome (in our case, using engines), is like running with a crutch. Over time, you will become so heavily dependant on it that you can't run without it.

Avatar of kindaspongey

"... for those that want to be as good as they can be, they'll have to work hard.
Play opponents who are better than you … . Learn basic endgames. Create a simple opening repertoire (understanding the moves are far more important than memorizing them). Study tactics. And pick up tons of patterns. That’s the drumbeat of success. ..." - IM Jeremy Silman (December 27, 2018)
https://www.chess.com/article/view/little-things-that-help-your-game