That doesn't mean that men are better than women, there are also alot less women who plays chess than men, alot less. If we use statistics like you, we can prove alot of things, alot.
Sry, but you are right. Only true here is that they play less then man. Ho is better has nothing to do with it.
More women play bridge than men , yet men dominate at the top level of bridge : http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/24/arts/bridge-men-and-women-play-a-different-game.html
nuff said
"The average male grade is 84 elo higher than the average female grade and has been for about the last 10 years, before-which the female grade was worse by comparison. This does suggest that female players are getting stronger over time, and who knows what might happen in the future, but certainly at the moment males are a superior strength."
(Sorry, I'm not sure how to do quotes properly)
This gives an answer to my proposed study. This suggests there is a gap but not a very big one. I tend to think that gap would narrow further if more women became interested in chess and put the time into it. I certainly don't believe that there is anything inherent in the female "condition" which predetermines women to be inferior chess players to men.
What I can see from my work with the junior members of my local chess club, at a young age a lot of girls show an interest, but that seems to dwindle as they get older, whilst the boys stick at it. I think it's a vicious circle: not many women play chess because not many women play chess; they see it as a male pastime and not worth pursuing. We do need to think about different ways to encourage more girls to play chess, it would be good for the game. Also, I'm not sure I like going to tournaments and being surrounded by old smelly blokes all of the time 
I kind of dismissed the thread, not for the quality of the posts, but for the repetition of ideas that have already appeared in the many same-themed threads. I think it's a worthy topic if fairly futile in practice.
Here's my two cents: Men and women are not equal. We are different in the way our brains work. We are essentially different. If we were to in fact achieve equality across the board in some pursuit of depth (like chess or writing or musical composition etc.), that would be the remarkable thing.
Men just may be too hard to beat at chess for our fanaticism as Reb and others have pointed out, and for our greater representation at the extremes of the bellcurve i.e. dopes and geniuses. Of course I am refering to making it to the very top of the chess pyramid.
Why is ever one so obessed with rather or not men are better than women at chess? Are you stating the only reason indivdual is good or bad at chess is because of their sex? Indivduals are good at chess if they put the time and effort into learning the game. Women don't have a hard time understanding mathematics, alot of people regardless of sex have a hard time understanding complicated mathematics. Your ability to understand mathematics simply depends on how your brain thinks. I am very good at math and english and it is not because of my sex, it is because I am able to grasp concepts easily. Why do some males posting on this forum seem to need women to admit they are inferior at chess? Plus, I have never beaten a female on this website I have only beaten males
ChessDweeb post 128 you cannot be serious, anyway lmpantso. If the reference topics you give were for reasons unknown to be categorised as games or sport then the boys would no doubt apply themselves and excel. Cosmopolitan a most respected publication & known for pioneering journalism, well possibly for nine year old girls. One woman in the top one hundred so statistically it must follow that girls are equal to or better than boys.
I agree that tomboys sometimes beat up sissy's but this is the minority & cannot be projected for all.
Some can accept the obvious however imperfect, others may seek out endless research to prove a flat earth.
>:)
I was playing around. But it's funny that we try to compare sexes. Humans are like machines. Some faster, bigger and stronger than others. Some people are the same way. We are what we are. So what if men are better at chess. What does that prove. Only that men are better at chess. I'm sure not that many women will lose sleep over the issue.
One woman in the top one hundred is hardly convincing. Much as it may stick in the gullet of the liberal fascist fraternity the op may have a point. I would like to know of any competitive game or sport that girls prevail over boys.
>:)
The statement that boys are better than girls is not true based on the fact that even one women has beaten the best players that have or still exist.
Now if you said that on average, more men play chess therefore more men are better at chess then I would agree.
But you cannot say that emperically women do not have the capacity to play at mens level. There is no scientific proof to support your claim.
BTW - Here are some things women are good at:
Pounding Nails in Daylight http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529477,00.html
Memorizing http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Women_memorise_better_than_men/articleshow/2800742.cms
Following Instructions http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Work/Women_better_than_men_at_performing_tasks/articleshow/3818378.cms
Remembering Appearances http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/gendiff.htm
Managing Money http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/lifestyle/03/01/09/women-better-money-matters-men-survey
10 Things Women do better than men http://socyberty.com/sociology/10-things-women-do-better-than-men/
10 More things they do better http://www.cosmopolitan.com/advice/tips/women-better-than-men-things
Look how sexist those links are!! God, we're worse than women with so many different things, even chess!!
If anyone claims they are better at certain stuff, it's women. I have seen times on tv where women bash men and say they are better at things, like noticing new stuff. It's rather jokingly, but they do think it's true. Males just deal with it though and are perfectly fine. In fact they're probably right. Now, do you have complete proof of those claims? Well as much proof as the chess thing. Are those links not more sexist than what I'm doing? If you don't think that's sexist, why do you think I'm sexist?
Elubus - Never said you were sexist. Never said anything about you. Just poking fun at the establishment. : ) I don't take these articles any more serious than I do the claim that men are better at chess than women.
People with brown eyes are better at chess
Why is ever one so obessed with rather or not men are better than women at chess? Are you stating the only reason indivdual is good or bad at chess is because of their sex? Indivduals are good at chess if they put the time and effort into learning the game. Women don't have a hard time understanding mathematics, alot of people regardless of sex have a hard time understanding complicated mathematics. Your ability to understand mathematics simply depends on how your brain thinks. I am very good at math and english and it is not because of my sex, it is because I am able to grasp concepts easily. Why do some males posting on this forum seem to need women to admit they are inferior at chess? Plus, I have never beaten a female on this website I have only beaten males
As I have said before, it's blatantly obvious women have not even participated in chess a long time ago and although it's increasing today, chess is still dominated by males. And I think it's because males can relate to and grasp the concepts of chess more easily than females. But that doesn't mean that you personally cannot, just many others give up on it after playing once. In fact a lot of people do, but mostly males are staying with it. You are taking this discussion to personally. Chessdweeb, it was more of me quoting your post because of all the things women said they were better at but it was grobe that was calling me sexist. It was just mentioning some points.
Chessdweeb, it was more of me quoting your post because of all the things women said they were better at but it was grobe that was calling me sexist. It was just mentioning some points.
Serious discussion: Do you really think that men are more intelligent than women? If so why? If men are ostensibly better at chess what is the x factor behind it and does being better at chess mean that men are really more intelligent?
Chessdweeb, it was more of me quoting your post because of all the things women said they were better at but it was grobe that was calling me sexist. It was just mentioning some points.
Serious discussion: Do you really think that men are more intelligent than women? If so why? If men are ostensibly better at chess what is the x factor behind it and does being better at chess mean that men are really more intelligent?
No, it's not that simple. It's obvious that neither side is at all dominant in intelligence, yet men are dominant in chess. It's obvious that men are more likely to like the puzzles and stuff, problem solving and logical thinking which is a big part of chess. The female brain's advantages are memory and being able to multitask better along with some other things probably, but chess is alot about concentration, and many women would shy away from something that focuses on intense concentration on a chess board. In a tournament, it's usually quiet when there are games and everyone there whether playing or watching are focused on the games almost entirely. Because of the big difference in men and women playing chess, it would seem the males favor this kind of thing much more than the women and are very willing to pick up all kinds of advanced ideas about just one game. Some women might even call you insane or stupid just that you're dedicating so much time to chess. So it's more so the differences in the brains and the man's willingness to dedicate themselves to playing the game and concentrating on a game for a long period of time. Women would be more likely to want to get up, move around, and talk, but everybody is different and women don't have to be that way, just a lot of them are. And of course there are lots of males who hate chess, but it seems the ones that like it will do anything to get better, and women often don't like to put in that much into a game. But it does not totally equate with general intelligence, because it can't be said that a chess player has to be smarter than a scientist, the scientist wants to study things about how the world works instead of become good at a game, no matter how huge or good the game may be. These things have to be substantial, because of how dominant the males are in the chess world.
Nobody said that was a problem...
I am not one of those women who thinks that women are equal as men in everything. Yes, men are phyiscally stronger than woman. In most competative sports the majority of men will always dominate women. How ever the gap will get smaller over centuries as more women are raised to do the same things as men. 40 years ago girls did not participate in sports like baseball, basketball, etc. But in the last few decades schools & society have changed. Now there are millions of girls in schools playing those sports. It is very concievable that someday a woman could play baseball in the major leagues. Maybe she wouldn't be a homerun hitter, but she could easily be a good to great hitter. Talent, hard work, and God given gifts are not limited to men. For the person who said in 150 years of chess there have been very few women who were good at chess. Sure, but take into account that for approximately the first 120 years or so, woman were not encouraged to do anything but be mothers when they grew up, while men throughout history have always been competiters, warriors, etc. & were expected to be that way. Now that girls are encouraged to play chess in schools, it will be interesting to see in 50 years the difference. I'm betting that there will be a lot more woman GMs and that tournaments will no longer be seperated by male or female. This is an equal game for whoever plays it, brain power & intelligence is not a male trait, it's a human trait.
When a woman finally breaks into the major leagues--I can't wait, that will be so cool!--she will be a left handed relief pitcher.
Oi! Boys better than girls at chess?
i think we're the same. Only girls got more power :p
For those folks who didn't know that girls can play in the Little League World Series, here's another revelation that might come as bit of a shock.
The ladies can win games for their teams, too.
In what tournament organizers said was most likely a LLWS first, Katie Reyes hit a game-winning two-RBI single in Canada's 14-13 win over Germany on Tuesday afternoon in Williamsport, Pa.
Fifteen girls have played in the LLWS since 1984, but apparently none had logged the game's top highlight until Reyes had three hits and three RBIs on Tuesday. She also caught the game's final out at first base.
Move over, Amanda Whurlitzer.
Youth baseball has a new leading lady.
Will gender testing be required of her?
Caster Semenya is being tested. I know it's hard for some people to accept that some girls can perform at some levels of men.
http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slug=ap-southafrica-semenyasreturn&prov=ap&type=lgns
I can't wait for gender testing to become so sophisticated that it can tell what percentage of female versus male we are. The interesting part will be what the cutoffs are for certain sports. If you are 63% feminine you can't compete in the National Football League. Or there will have to be restrooms divided by %, or restricting marriages because the percentages are too close........
This is one of those what were we thinking moments in time.
Will gender testing be required of her?
Caster Semenya is being tested. I know it's hard for some people to accept that some girls can perform at some levels of men.
http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slug=ap-southafrica-semenyasreturn&prov=ap&type=lgns
I can't wait for gender testing to become so sophisticated that it can tell what percentage of female versus male we are. The interesting part will be what the cutoffs are for certain sports. If you are 63% feminine you can't compete in the National Football League. Or there will have to be restrooms divided by %, or restricting marriages because the percentages are too close........
This is one of those what were we thinking moments in time.
It's not a question of determining her percentage of femininity, but whether she has a rare genetic or hormonal disorder leading to unfair advantage.
If she does, she won't be the first to be banned based on an intersex condition by any means. Screening for gender verification was standard until 2000, now it is only done in suspicious cases, which, since she has three times the normal female testosterone level, this is.
There are some women who want to play football or rugby and are good too. Little league is more likely for women to compete at well because men haven't had the full time to grow so the difference is not as great. Girls are taller than boys in middle school (or maybe it was elementary school) but eventually the males get these huge growth spurts in height and in strength. So we know there are less female GM's, which is said to be because there are less female players. That is caused by less females interested in chess, and I would assume that's caused by them thinking it's boring because they aren't good at it.
Anyone who is good at chess loves the game unless they play the italian game when there are no imbalances. I used to do that when I was weak because I thought it had to be the best series of moves. Even if it was, it was extremely dull and no room to outplay your opponent. When I learned new openings like especially 1 d4, I started to like the game again. So anyways, would it make any sense to say that the women (and men for that matter, but less of them would be like this because of the more players) are not interested in chess because they don't have a natural talent for the game or they play the italian game too much?
Or do you think they would develop their skills just as quickly if they felt like it? But I know that there are people, no matter how much you explain it to them like rummy, math or chess ideas, they will just never get it, because they can't grasp the concept without difficulty for some reason (and in my experience, it's been females, which connects with the brain differences, does it not?). My mom said she doesn't like the ultra logical (like game strategy and math) way of thinking, and many girls don't. So it's based on sources and on my personal experience that was what it was like.
It doesn't mean no women can do those things very well at all, and the ones that can do it are obviously as good as the guys, but it just seems like more often than not, if you show a girl a chess board she will not like it and when you explain strategic concepts to her, she will think it's stupid or too confusing. This happens with guys too, but it's also the guys who get more obsessive and will grasp the ideas easier.
But what many people overlook about what I said is that this can't mean that the polgar sisters had no natural talent and didn't grasp the ideas easily, because they did. But why isn't there a big fuss when a man becomes a GM? Because many men already did it and it's common. And the male GM's seem to have a higher ceiling than the best women, but there aren't enough women to see what would really happen, but does the fact that less women play a complete excuse? If they don't like it it's extremely unlikely they are good. And a quite possible reason why there aren't as many women playing has already been stated above. And women are only encouraged by chess players to play now but they often develop a dislike to it. It's a very hard game to learn at a good level. For the women who are great, you're obviously not one of them. If there were as many people like you as the guys, there would be lots of female GM's although we don't know how many would be as good as the men because we don't have many female players. But I basically think there is a reason for that. Because why would a girl who could understand chess easily not like or play it?
The girls who do play are aproximately as good as the men in all but the world championship 2600+ level even if there were as many women playing because it's incredible no matter what that no woman has come even close to contesting for the world championship. But the fact that there are more men playing chess I think should say something about the general skill level.
Women are better than Irish people at chess.
I'm sorry, but it's true.
1. # of Irish GMs < # of Female GMs.
"I think this bears repeating.
What's really disturbing is that Women are also all better than Kasparov:
# of women GMs > # of GMs named Kasparov
South Africans aren't even capable of playing chess -- you can tell because they have no GMs."
Ok this comparison to the original post is very flawed. Do you not realize that there are just as many females as males but many more females than irish people???
i think it's unfair to cats that in a similar amount of time, this terrible thread has 9 pages of drivel but the boys v cats thread only has 2. viva los gatos!