Chess and Religion

Thanks marco, for all your input but, no matter how interesting,  this thread is jettisoning beyond my scope. 

                All in favor of locking batgirl out of her own thread say eye!

Remember reading the post I made reguarding the ripples in the pond that you probably thought was psychobabble...?

After giving your idea more though, I made another post that probably was more simplistic and to the point, of what you were looking for or getting at...

I can just see you when you were at school ParadiseOfNone ! :-))

I really not sure what I was/am looking for.  I'm trying to understand chess during primarily the 16th century, say between Lucena and Greco. It's the era H.J.R. Murray referred to as "the first creative period in the history of modern chess."  I know during that time that almost all the great partons and great chess players were either members of the R.C. Church or clergy in that same institution.  I also know that somewhat concurrent with this creative era of chess were the Renaissance, the Spanish Inquisiton, the Protestant Reformation, the Anabaptist movement, the growing use of the printing press and probably other things I can't think of offhand.  It's my experience that nothing happens in a vacuum and events tend to relate to other events, sometime significantly, sometimes negligibly.  The only way to detemine such things is to explore them.  The problem is that a cursory knowledge of these extensive events often leads to misunderstanding and an indepth knowledge requires years of reading.  As a mathematical moron, I'd rather ask a question about physics, even if I don't understand enough to formulate the question quite right, than spend years trying to understand physics enough to ascertain the answer myself.  This thread is something along those lines - and all the people here who responded with consideration have helped me, if not in understanding the answer, at least in focusing the question.

I appreciate that you took the time to acknowledge that you had read my posts. I was beginning to wonder if perhaps my ideas were dismissed as conjecture, since I didn't quote any history book(s). I knew when you posed the question that, it would be as you have said, a lot of cause and effect ideas to consider, from many angles, many of which, likely no one of us simple humans had already known or considered.

I was concerned I came of as a bit condescending for you having asked your question, as I seemed to imply that it is nearly unanswerable for pretty much anyone. I was merely trying to say that there were a lot of things to consider, and the scope of them goes beyond institutions, and reaches all the way into the various details of the daily lives of many people. Those are hard things to be aware for anyone, unless they are omniscient and or omnipresent. Some people argue over whether those ideas are even plausible for a being to possess.

I was hoping when I followed up with a few other posts that you'd realize that I was still mulling it over and was willing to contribute, as I did find your idea both profound and compelling. When you didn't seem to acknowledge those, I was left wondering if you were thinking that, I had realized the error of my ways and was seeing the bits of truth come to light... lol

I wish now I had been slower to answer, carefully gathered and arranged all of my ideas. Perhaps then they would have made better sense and seemed in some way more enlightening. I wish you well in you pursuit of this and if I think of anything else, I will gladly share.

PS... your mention of the timing of the printing press and my mention of the renowned Catholic record keeping archives are compelling for me. After all, who plays a game without any desire or intention of winning ? I am sure even pious servants wanted to feel free in victory and have a sense of personal accomplishment, even if considered trivial and temporal. Keeping personal records of how one, won or lost, what worked and what didn't, most likely were the forerunners for modern opening books and databases.

There we go. Printing press did wonders to help spread the game. Rather than through straight word of mouth and/or conquest.

Edumacation. :)

A game taken on missions trips likely helped a ton for it's proliferation...

I agree, I am not discrediting that at all. but a book printed 1000 times and given to 1000 people who can read would have had a greater impact as one multiples the numbers.

       "A game taken on missions trips likely helped a ton for it's proliferation..."    Your talking about a time when Pirate ships were all over the place, and EVERYBODY was looking for new trade routes.

I was raised in a strict orthodox Discordian household.  Chess was forbidden.  Hungry-hungry-hippos was the only game allowed to us children and was played with rasins instead of marbles.*  Every third weekend we got to play rock-em-sock-em-robots but no in the traditional sense.  It was thought to be too violent so the mechanical punching actions of the robots was disabled and we dressed the robots up in clothes made from pudding skin.  It wasn't until I rebeled against my parents in my late 30's that I learned how to play chess.

*Our fish were allergic to marbles and would fall into violent sneezing fits if so much as a shooter entered the house.

        *Our fish were allergic to marbles"     ahahahahahaha  YOU TOO!?   I wonder why?

Just make sure that you understand, I never said that chess wasn't spread by other means. In the mind of a pirate, they were generals, royalty, and the priests and clergy of their own beliefs...

I have known many an unsavory character who was good at chess.

Also, people who are put into prisons and want a break from it's insanities, a way to peacefully compete for bartered goods/ services/accomodations, while inside, and to peacefully show who was more cunning, probably also helped to spread the game. I work with a guy whose sister was raped and he killed him, was charged with manslaughter, spent 8 years in prison playing chess and is damn good at it. It is likely he never would have developed those skills had he been free to what he really wanted all that time.

that is true. time away from the drudgeries of trying to survive at the end of the day ( aka free time) is a need to trully learn chess.

           No argument 

Really, there were too many posts coming too quickly that were too complex (and frankly some hard to decipher) that after I read all the recent posts from after each previous visit, I got lost trying to assimulate it all. 

The printing press is an interesting topic all in itself.  While the publication of books in a semi-mass production fashion did increase the amount of reading material available, I would find it hard to prove that it contributed in any way towards spreading chess to the masses.  As I understand it, even into the 19th century, esoteric subjects require a certain subscribership before a publisher would take a chance on printing a book. Back in the 16th century, only the very rich would be buying books - and there would have been very limited printings.  Besides that, there were very few chess books actually published back. So, I think the printing press had a certain influence, but necessarily not one for the masses until another century of two.

I don't know enough about the Roman Catholics of that time to know about their record-keeping habits.  I know the Muslims were very intellectual, terrific scribes and produced many great libraries.

The printing press and all that occured after had a lot to do with expanding the opportunities for intellectual pursuits, but I really think that the expansion of chess to the masses was more of a consequence of the Crusades than anything else.  If we consider that the game originated in India and spread to (and popularized by) the Muslims, than the contact of Christians with Islamic society would have introduced the European masses to the game.  All other arguements in this thread tend to deal with the elites and the educated, which doesn't explain how the commoners came to learn the game.  The exposure of Europeans to Islamic culture and ideas profoundly influenced European culture, and the time between campaigns would have given the masses the leisure time to learn the game.  Back home, the long winters would have been filled with story telling and chess.  Just my take on it.

While you make a good point about a publisher, printer or book binder only taking certain financial risks, or requiring the money up front, relegated it to the rich only, for getting books into production but, if it is considered that paper, parchment, or scroll material was perhaps more readily available, it may have contributed to the ease or encouragement of compiling even crude records.

For example, a clergy member might have had exclusive access to writing material, quill and ink, that could have been afforded them by church, for their service. This is something commoners might not have had.

Ruy Lopez has influenced me all of these centuries later, as I try to play his opening exclusively. The opening is named after the 16th-century Spanish priest Ruy López de Segura, who made a systematic study of this and other openings in the 150-page book on chess Libro del Ajedrez written in 1561.  Although it bears his name, this particular opening was included in the Göttingen manuscript, which dates from c. 1490. Popular use of the Ruy Lopez opening did not develop, however, until the mid-19th century when Carl Jaenisch, a Russian theoretician, "rediscovered" its potential. The opening remains the most commonly used amongst the open games in master play; it has been adopted by almost all players during their careers, many of whom have played it with both colours. Due to the difficulty for Black to achieve equality,^[1] and the fact that Lopez was a priest during the Inquisition, a common nickname for the opening is "The Spanish Torture".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruy_Lopez

If we consider how Domenico Lorenzo Poniani may have used his love for chess and his service as a priest, doing this very thing, it would only then make sense that he keep records and is credited with the Ponziani Opening. The fact he was also a law professor, composer and theoretician I am sure would have also given him ample means to do so but, if clergy looked to a priest for direction and he had the means to compile better records and perhaps be agreater influence, who knows ? However, it make perfect sense to me.

The opening 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.c3 is one of the oldest known openings, having been discussed in chess literature by no later than 1497. It was mentioned in both of the earliest chess treatises: the Repetición de Amores y Arte de Ajedrez con ci Iuegos de Partido by Lucena^[2] and the Göttingen manuscript.^[3] Today the opening bears the surname of Domenico Lorenzo Ponziani. Although Ponziani did analyze the opening in 1769, his principal contribution was the introduction of the countergambit 3...f5!?^[4] Later the opening was favored by Howard Staunton, who in The Chess-Player's Handbook (1847) called it "so full of interest and variety, that its omission in many of the leading works on the game is truly unaccountable. ... it deserves, and, if we mistake not, will yet attain a higher place in the category of legitimate openings than has hitherto been assigned

The Sicilian Defense was helped to be popularized by Pietro Carrera, (July 12, 1573 – September 18, 1647) chess player, historian, priest and Italian author, born in Sicily, in Militello in Val di Catania (Province of Catania), located in the Valley of Noto; here he grew up in the old colony of San Vito. He was born on July 12, 1573, he was the son of Donna Antonia Severino (mother) and Mariano Carrera, a traditional craftsman who entered the priesthood after his wife's death. During his studies in the Seminario Diocesiano of Siracusa, he had the opportunity to visit many different Sicilian cities. As a result of his travels he met Paolo Boi, so-called "The Siracusan", in the town of Palermo during 1597.

In 1617 he wrote and published Il Gioco degli Scacchi (The Game of Chess), subdivided into eight books where "learning the rules, the odds, the endgames, the blindfold chess and a discussion about the true origins of chess in itself". This was the first book ever printed in Militello, on request of the Princes of Butera, by Giovanni Rosso from Trento; in this poem Carrera collected and elaborated in a sistematic fashion information given by previous authors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pietro_Carrera

I've read where about 12 million books were published during the 1400s and over 10 times that amount during the 1500s.  But it Is also my understanding that during the  1400s, the 15th century, most books were printed in Latin. It wasn't until after the start of the Protestant Reformation that books were starting to be published in native languages, mainly to make the Bible popularly available - which in turn started an increase in literacy particularly in countries when protestantism was accepted.

In England the male literacy rate was 10% in 1500,  25% in 1700,  and 40% by 1760 (around the time Philidor published his Analyse.  So, during the 1500s, the 16th century, I can't see chess spreading to the masses through literature.

Chess was brought to Europe by the Muslims, perhaps partly through the crusades during (around) the 12th and 13th centuries, but definitely through the Muslim expansion into Iberia in the 8th century.  Chess even became one of the Knightly Virtues around the time of the first Crusade.

[Moses Sephardi was born in 1062 in Huesca, a town in the Kingdom of Aragon. He was born a Jew but converted to Christianity. He was the doctor to Alfonso I, King of Aragon and when he converted, Alfonso stood sponsor at his baptism on St. Peter's day - 29 June, 1106. He took the name Petrus Alfonsus. (for St. Peter and King Alfonso I). He wrote several works. One of them, "Petri Alfonsi Disciplina Clericalis,"  has been translated into several languages and is still preserved in its original manuscript.  Petrus Alfonsus died in 1110.

"Petri Alfonsi Disciplina Clericalis" means  "A Training-school for the Clergy by Petrus Alfonsus."
 
The "Disciplina Clericalis"  had been adapted over the years as a model for knights, as well as clerics, and within are listed the Seven Virtuous Disciplines: (De septem artibus, probitatibus, industriis)

"Probitates haec sunt, equitare, natare, sagittare, cestibus certare, aucupari, scaccis ludere, versificare."
                            This translates:
"These things are advisable, riding, swimming, archery, fencing, hunting (or falconry), chess playing,  poetry (or music)."]

ParadoxOfNone, Carrera was an interesting person.  Although he was born in the 16th century, he stood mostly in the early 17th century.  The last book mentioned, "Il Gioco degli Scacchi,"  was translated by Jacob H. Sarratt a century after it was first pubished.  The fascinating part of this book for me was Carrera's  history of chess players up to that time with whom he was familar.  ---------> An Account of Chess Players and Thse Who Have Written on the Game.