Chess will never be solved, here's why

@6267

"For English, there are about half a million words in the biggest dictionaries."
"The average individual only uses about 30,000 words."
++ I did not say that an average individual would be able to memorise 10,000 games i.e. about a million positions.  Several people have a proficient conduct of several languages.

Psakhis had memorised all Fischer Games.
Fischer had memorised all Spassky games and much more.
Dorfman had memorised all 210 games of Zürich 1953 and could recite for each diagram: the round, the players, the result, and the game plans.
It is plausible that Carlsen had for his matches memorised all Anand, Karjakin, Caruana, and Nepomniachtchi games and much more.

Yes. But the move was played in an ICCF World Championship game (https://www.iccf.com/game?id=1164303) so it must be about perfect.

You didn't respond to the second part of my post. You must have missed it. I'll repeat it.

Back to the validity of your basic calculation, I invited you here to "Show it or shut it". You have done neither so far. Do you plan to?

@6269
"Yes. But the move was played in an ICCF World Championship game"
++ The drawn games are > 99% sure to be perfect with optimal play from both sides.
The decisive games contain at least 1 error.
Here it is a typical human error. They look like 20 moves deep and then mess up as they erroneously believe a certain move of that sequence already has been played, while it has not yet.

@tygxc

"Here it is a typical human error. They look like 20 moves deep and then mess up as they erroneously believe a certain move of that sequence already has been played, while it has not yet."

I've been concentrating on getting my grandson, who's just learned the moves, to stop hanging his pieces. Maybe his problem is also looking 20 moves deep and thinking something's already been played that hasn't.

And the second point in my post? You've missed it again:

Back to the validity of your basic calculation, I invited you here to "Show it or shut it". You have done neither so far. Do you plan to?

No point in continuing to plug your five year plan if the SF error rate it's based on is 1000 times too optimistic.

There's a difference between "knew almost every game really, really well" and memorizing them.  Ergo, super GMs constantly mis-remembering their prep.  When you find a player that can recite 10,000 games without mistakes, you let me know.

@6283

There are actors who know plays of 30,000 words by heart.
There are humans who have memorised 100,000 digits of pi, which has no pattern.
10,000 chess games should be feasible.
Even knowing 1000 perfect chess games should provide an advantage.

Not much if you don't also understand them.

https://bellard.org/pi/

When I was young I memorised enough to show off a little (can't recall how many, may have been as few as 30). I got the digits from a sci-fi novel because I judged (correctly) that the author would not have put wrong ones in. The question is what novel was it? It is possible it was Time for the Stars, but it could easily have been another I also read as a young teenager.

(Now I only know 14 digits after the decimal point. More than enough for most practical use.)

I memorised a little over 4000 digits many years ago, back at high school. Sadly it didn't impress the girls as much as I would have liked

The Australian record is something like ~10k digits if I am remembering correctly. One day I might try to re-learn them and attempt the record.

Seems a colossal waste of time to me, for once again few, if anyone, will be impressed.  Playing some chess would be a better use of that time perhaps.

haha! it's funny that you assume chess can never be solved. i've come close to it, i'm a mathematician graduate student in harvard university. 

my thesis dissertation will be on solving the problem of chess. i'm close to solving it so it will be solved soon 

Maybe it was your insistence on reciting all 4000 digits that they were not impressed with? I mean, how else could you not be impressed by someone who memorizes 4000 digits of pi? 

I once memorized the first 100 digits.....but not in order. 

@6288

"you have to know the best move in every position by heart"
++ Or deduce it by logic reasoning. It is easier to remember a chess game than digits of pi:
chess has logic while pi is random without any pattern.

"THE best moves in a position" ++ A good move i.e. no error (?) is enough

"you would have to know every single possible position" ++ Only the relevant positions

"With 64 squares, and 24 pieces, that number is enormous"
++ 64 squares and 32 pieces give 10^44 legal positions of which 10^17 relevant

"for the first 10 moves, you can get something like 196 quintillion move orders"
Without transpositions : (4^11 - 1) / (4 - 1) = 1398101 positions
With transpositions: e^4 = 55 positions
Geometric average: 8737 positions

what about 78 moves?
Without transpositions: (4^79 - 1) / (4 - 1) = 10^47, more than there are legal positions
With transpositions: 55 positions
Geometric average: 10^24 positions, too high as the number without transpositions is too high

"there has been chess games, between engines, with more than 200 moves!"
++ Engine versus engine play on too long in totally drawn positions.
That is one of the tasks of the humans: to terminate calculations in clearly drawn positions.
Average game in ICCF correspondence: 39 moves.

@6294

"i'm a mathematician graduate student in harvard university.
my thesis dissertation will be on solving the problem of chess.
i'm close to solving it so it will be solved soon"

++ Interesting. Can you tell us some more?

Lol.  That's a troll account named "kingbootyhole", a few hours old.  The fact that you are ready to trust that this is a grad student at Harvard close to solving chess, with zero supporting evidence, just shows how/why you were taken in by Svheshnikov's offhand claim.

@Optimissed, I know Contact has pi in it, but this was way too late and not consistent with my memory! It has to be a novel published by the mid-1970s.

Now, will you stop wriggling and post your calculations for the games here? Then the rest of us can sensibly discuss the topic.