Chess will never be solved, here's why

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MEGACHE3SE
tygxc wrote:

@12609

Your Ramanujan series, or 4*arctan(1), or the Wallis product also only approximate pi for any finite number of steps.

actually no 4*arctan(1) is proven to be equal to pi.

you again mistake deductive equivalence with statistical estimation methods.

Do you agree that the number of possible chess games is at least 10^29241 according to a Monte Carlo simulation is a proof?

nobody agrees with that lmfao, not even the authors. thats why they called it an estimation and a simulation.

Elroch

@tygxc, you act like you are playing casual chess whenever discussing anything. Try to read and understand what has been said rather than acting as if it is all the enemy!

Ramanujan's series, or even 4 * (1 - 1/3 + 1/5 - 1/7 + ...), permits you to find, say, the 1000,000th decimal digit of pi, with no uncertainty. A Monte Carlo estimation does not even achieve this, even for the first decimal digit.

That's a difference.

In the case of solving chess, a valid mathematical method will conclude the value of chess is some value from the set {0, 1/2, 1} with no uncertainty.

A hypothetical Monte Carlo method (none has been suggested) could only conclude that the value of chess is some value from the set {0, 1/2, 1} with probability p, where p is some value that is strictly less than 1.

Monte Carlo techniques can be the best tool when high confidence suffices (rather than certainty). When certainty is required, they are useless.

A Monte Carlo simulation can sometimes give answers with very high confidence. People are often willing to ignore a low probability of being wrong. Mathematical proofs are not one of those purposes: they require certainty.

mpaetz
tygxc wrote:

@12583

"can u take a picture of ur certificate on maths?"
++ I can, but I will not. Next you will ask a picture of my ID to see if my diploma's are mine.
Next you will ask for a picture of me with a newspaper to see if the ID is mine.
Privacy.

I won't ask for pictorial proofs of your mathematics credentials, but you might mention what they are. Otherwise your "more than anyone here" claims just seem like comical boasting.

Thee_Ghostess_Lola

i betcha tygxc is pretty close tho...if not really-REALLY close. so I could see where that'd bother summa u math cheek-palmers.

plz u dorks...have some self-respect ? (as ur not getting any from me lol !).

playerafar

that's funny - we're not getting any 'self-respect' from Lola.
You got that 'self-respect' all locked up in the medicine cabinet Dear?
Reminds me of 'the Caine Mutiny' and the strawberries ...
yes I'll post the vid if I can find it.
s

Thee_Ghostess_Lola

ur bromance guy could use some bottom braces (& a pierced tung)

Thee_Ghostess_Lola

literally writes the probability 

ALL A PROBABILITY is just one big giant conjecture right ?...dont expect absolute truth outta chess unless u can trust the accuracy a piece/pawn evaluation AT EVERY PLY...and good luck w/ that. witchell probly be a way bigger test than chess's large # conundree.

playerafar
Thee_Ghostess_Lola wrote:

ur bromance guy could use some bottom braces (& a pierced tung)

That guy is long dead.
Ever hear of him? Humphrey Bogart.
In that movie he plays the crazy.
The star of Casablanca.

Dasamething0

.

DiogenesDue
HyperbolicRevenge wrote:

Lola is likely some Gen Z kid who doesn't know how to write or have respect (like most of these Zoomers).

Not really. She tries to act young, though. Comes off more crazy than young and carefree.

tygxc

@12612

"the 1000,000th decimal digit of pi, with no uncertainty"
++ Uncertainty or probability is fundamental. All quantum mechanics and thermodynamics depend on probability. The world as we perceive it is as it is because that is the most probable.

"the value of chess is some value from the set {0, 1/2, 1} with no uncertainty"
++ 1/2 no uncertainty

"probability p, where p is some value that is strictly less than 1"
++ 1 - 117^116 = 0.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999... (240 times 9)

"When certainty is required" ++ Never: everything is probability.
Even Schaeffer mentioned the 'vanishingly small probability' of some error propagating in his weak solution of Checkers.

"People are often willing to ignore a low probability of being wrong"
++ Rightly so. The Cretaceous Paleogene extinction event happened 66 * 10^6 years ago,
that is 24*10^9 days. The probability of the Sun not rising tomorrow thus is 4*10^-11.

"Mathematical proofs are not one of those purposes: they require certainty"
++ No, not always. It is a puristic view of mathematics. There is mathematics of uncertainty.
Our elo rating system or Glicko rating system are simplified Kalman filters to deal with uncertainty.

Will you win a game against Carlsen? Certainly not. more precisely: 0.0000541%

tygxc

@12613

"you might mention what they are"
++ Then the forum posters will not believe, ask for picture of diploma, as they already did, then ask for ID etc. I hinted at it and one guessed it right.

"more than anyone here claims just seem like comical boasting"
++ I did not bring it up. Some forum posters posted nonsense about it, showing their own lack of mathematical education. It is only my reply to their nonsense.

It does not even matter. Something is true because it is true, not because I say so, not because I know more about mathematics than any here.

playerafar
HyperbolicRevenge wrote:
playerafar wrote:

that's funny - we're not getting any 'self-respect' from Lola.
You got that 'self-respect' all locked up in the medicine cabinet Dear?
Reminds me of 'the Caine Mutiny' and the strawberries ...
yes I'll post the vid if I can find it.
s

Lola is likely some Gen Z kid who doesn't know how to write or have respect (like most of these Zoomers).

Lola's been around a while.
She 'adds color' and is relatively harmless to the forums she is in.
And is often a kind of Plus.
Whether a forum sinks or not - depends on who else is in that forum and more importantly - Not in it.
--------------------------------
We can expect Lola will 'defend' the T-Guy.
No big deal.
Because tygxc is what's called a 'foil'. As opposed to 'trolling'.
Causes the real information to come out from other posters.
But T made a 'slip' by Directly claiming he knows more than everybody here.
A few days ago.
Reminiscent of the absent O-person.
But unlike 'O' T does not spam that conceit all day all year.
Not 'directly' that is. Indirectly?
T is a different kind of 'special case'.
-----------------------
Lola your hair looks nice today.

Tschaederer
Heres another one: there is literally no one best move

See, if player x is making a really bad move it can still be good depending on his plan, situation, chess position etc

Player y plays only good moves but doesn’t really have a plan so he never sacrifices a piece of his or anything

Even though player y may be better in analysis of the game he didn’t win computers which do these analysations don’t see bigger plans they only see the move itself

Which means that as soon as a player gets good it isn’t really about the move but rather the entire game having to be played very well and with a great plan

Plus chess is at some point a game of luck since it’s all about the tactics. if your opponent has a bad tactic you’re probably going to win even if you have a good strategy you can lose by one singular wrong move


Chess is not solvable, at least not for us. Since we humans cannot process the insanely large number of moves possible

We can also never win 100% because if two players have exactly equal skill levels (lets say maximum because then they can’t get better suddenly in the middle of the game) they will not come to an end unless there is a tie or a chess timer

That would mean that skill doesn’t matter anymore unless you are playing against someone who hasn’t got this level of skill

Plus everyone else would come to the same level of skill someday and if that happens then there would be literally no way to win with pure skill
oh-no-my-knight

tygxc wrote:

@12613

"you might mention what they are"
++ Then the forum posters will not believe, ask for picture of diploma, as they already did, then ask for ID etc. I hinted at it and one guessed it right.

"more than anyone here claims just seem like comical boasting"
++ I did not bring it up. Some forum posters posted nonsense about it, showing their own lack of mathematical education. It is only my reply to their nonsense.

It does not even matter. Something is true because it is true, not because I say so, not because I know more about mathematics than any here.

Once again, why are you assuming they’ll will ask you for the id? Quit avoiding the question and show us proof you have a diploma. Them asking about your id is invasion of privacy, and they know it. @TumoKonnin said already they promised they won’t, so what’s stopping you? Is it that you have no diploma in reality?

Elroch
tygxc wrote:

Will you win a game against Carlsen? Certainly not. more precisely: 0.0000541%

People with advanced mathematical qualifications understand that 0.000000541 does not equal zero.

They understand the same applies to a good guess that chess is a draw.

They understand that you need random events to be independent in order to multiply probabilities.

For some reason, you aren't even capable of learning that when told.

Bliztlover

hi

MEGACHE3SE
tygxc wrote:

@12612

"the 1000,000th decimal digit of pi, with no uncertainty"
++ Uncertainty or probability is fundamental. All quantum mechanics and thermodynamics depend on probability. The world as we perceive it is as it is because that is the most probable.

way to not address it at all. this is math, not physics.

"the value of chess is some value from the set {0, 1/2, 1} with no uncertainty"
++ 1/2 no uncertainty

yeah, sure, argument by repetition works tygxc.

if no uncertainty, then where's the proof? saying "we know from gambits" just assumes that conventional knowledge is correct, without proof.

"probability p, where p is some value that is strictly less than 1"
++ 1 - 117^116 = 0.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999... (240 times 9)

again, assuming the opposite of the conclusion invalidates your calculations

"When certainty is required" ++ Never: everything is probability.

uh you should look at a basic math course.

https://math.berkeley.edu/~hutching/teach/proofs.pdfEven Schaeffer mentioned the 'vanishingly small probability' of some error propagating in his weak solution of Checkers.

now you're conflating a code error with the probability of being wrong because you are ignoring logical possibilities. cmon bro you're just lying now.

"People are often willing to ignore a low probability of being wrong"
++ Rightly so. The Cretaceous Paleogene extinction event happened 66 * 10^6 years ago,
that is 24*10^9 days. The probability of the Sun not rising tomorrow thus is 4*10^-11.

again, you're just making stuff up now. random "calculations" you pulled from thin air arent facts.

"Mathematical proofs are not one of those purposes: they require certainty"
++ No, not always. It is a puristic view of mathematics. There is mathematics of uncertainty.

there isnt lmfao, thats why you cant provide a SINGLE example of it.Our elo rating system or Glicko rating system are simplified Kalman filters to deal with uncertainty.

Wow tygxc, did you know that an ELO rating system isnt a math proof?

Will you win a game against Carlsen? Certainly not. more precisely: 0.0000541%

tygxc, did you know that 99% ≠ 100%?

tygxc

@12627

If you studied mathematics at Cambridge, then did you know Prof. Alan Baker?
I have a book of his on my shelf.

MEGACHE3SE

btw tygxc ive now spoken to a 3rd mathematician about your lunacy, they thought you were trolling because they thought: surely nobody could be that stupid?

We all know that you dont have any math proof education, because that's why you're refusing to even name the degree that you claim you have.